049: Mimi Mollica
This week, we spoke with photographer and educator Mimi Mollica.
Reach out to us @idlehandssociety. Your hosts today are @dan_s_higginson, @paulbenceuk, and @mimimollica on Instagram. You can support the Podcast by contributing to The Idle Hands Tip Jar.
SHOUT OUTS:
Paul - BBC Kae Tempest documentary,
Dan - Upon The High Street exhibition in Rochester by Joshua Atkins & Daniel Loveday
Mimi’s many shout-outs
© Mimi Mollica - part of Terra Nostra series
© Mimi Mollica - part of Terra Nostra series
© Mimi Mollica - part of East London Up Close series
© Mimi Mollica - part of East London Up Close series
We appreciate your support
Transcript
Transcribed poorly by AI
00:00:03 Dan
Welcome to the Idle Hands Society podcast. I'm Dan Higginson.
00:00:07 Dan
He's Paul bentz.
00:00:08 Mimi
Good afternoon. Morning, evening.
00:00:10 Dan
And we're joined.
00:00:10 Dan
Today, by the incredible the one and only winning elika.
00:00:16 Mimi
Thank you very much. Hello everyone.
00:00:18 Mimi
Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Dan. Thank you.
00:00:21 Mimi
General's introduction.
00:00:24 Dan
Fire introduction. Imagine. Yeah. Music festival. You get to choose the headlining act and the Support Act for the main stage. Is it gonna be?
00:00:35 Mimi
They're all dead.
00:00:38 Paul
That's alright, that's alright.
00:00:41 Mimi
Now you know I since I was very little, I was a a super fan of The Beatles. OK? And and I as a Cecilia, I'm born in 1975 he wasn't, you know very.
00:00:57 Mimi
Very you. You know very much along thing and I don't. Uh, a friend in school primary school they had the same passion of me. So we were the outcast. Listen to 60s music.
00:01:12 Mimi
But then my my taste of music became so loud and eclectic.
00:01:20 Mimi
That, as with the photography.
00:01:24 Mimi
I always find it very hard to answer these kind of questions, so I'm sure that if I answer to you positively with something.
00:01:34 Mimi
That I like.
00:01:36 Mimi
The moment after we repent and say ohh I should have included that I can try and I can say that I like of course The Beatles, but modern contemporary I would put outcast Alicia Keys I will put.
00:01:39 Dan
Alright, yeah.
00:01:40 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:55 Mimi
Billy Eilish no bullish like, but no Billy Strings. Green green grass. Amazing. Really amazing.
00:02:02 Paul
OK please.
00:02:04 Dan
I don't know that.
00:02:07 Mimi
But then.
00:02:09 Mimi
I will also put the ocean wisdom hip hop, amazing British young kid, really great. But then again, jazz music. I I you know, keep Jarrett and all the jazz.
00:02:24 Mimi
Ladies, so you?
00:02:25 Mimi
See there? There isn't any any line apart from.
00:02:29 Mimi
And the passion that I have for for this music, if you listen to.
00:02:32 Mimi
My mix tapes.
00:02:34 Mimi
You would go from pop to jazz to classic to everything in no time.
00:02:36 Dan
OK.
00:02:39 Dan
Do you have your mixtapes on that Spotify?
00:02:41 Mimi
Or something they've been stolen.
00:02:43 Mimi
No, no. My actual mix tapes have been stolen in Spotify. The one main compartment, one tool box, which have the light sounds which I put randomly in. And I always enjoy. And then I have my few playlist.
00:03:01 Mimi
Depending if I have the people of adima where people are a bit of a Brazilian music, then I if I want to have a party or something like minus party classical back.
00:03:20 Dan
Yeah, properly eclectic. A little bit like your photography. Yeah, it's like.
00:03:24 Mimi
Very much.
00:03:25 Dan
From one moment to the next, there's like.
00:03:28 Dan
Like a real departure.
00:03:29 Dan
Right, that's pretty cool. Go on, Paul. What do you?
00:03:32 Dan
Reckon who are you?
00:03:33 Dan
Putting on your on the bent mainstage.
00:03:36 Paul
Oh, that's a really tough one. I'd really like Nick Drake myself. And maybe.
00:03:43 Paul
You know, job Bob Dylan, Nick Drake, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, they're kind of like that old folky, you know, flavor myself, rice, maybe the better band.
00:03:49 Dan
Oh yeah, yeah. OK.
00:03:56 Paul
The Who? The beat. You don't know who the Peter band is. Oh, my God. Well, I let me introduce you to.
00:03:58 Dan
I don't.
00:04:01 Paul
The Peter Band later they they're like.
00:04:01
OK, OK.
00:04:04 Paul
Like a Mogwai kind of.
00:04:06 Dan
I'm in, sold, sold.
00:04:07 Paul
Salt for that, but more than.
00:04:11 Dan
OK.
00:04:13 Dan
McGuire Scottish. But you're saying what? NN England, right?
00:04:16 Paul
Yeah. N England. OK, I bloody love Mogwai. You ever seen Mogwai live? I have. I saw the other. Why? Why? I've got Hall and honestly, it changed me as a person. I've never, ever. It's a music. Incredible.
00:04:22 Dan
Oh, it's like I'm really just experience, isn't it?
00:04:31 Paul
It's like you're in a wall of noise, right? And it's it's enveloping you is the only way you can describe it. And it keeps coming as waves. It's like you're on a.
00:04:40 Paul
Like you're in the sea and it just keeps coming and growing and growing and growing and there's these layers and then you're like, whoa, my brain is and you come out of it afterwards and you're like, like, you know, your ears are ringing and your body.
00:04:50 Paul
Is kind of in this state.
00:04:52 Dan
Everybody's really do.
00:04:52 Mimi
Of vibration. Wow. Well, you lift your legs.
00:04:53 Paul
Yes, they said that needs and. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, mind.
00:04:57 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:57 Paul
Blowing it is.
00:04:58 Dan
Really incredible. Really incredible. I've been diving deep on music recently because I've been making a playlist like an idle hands playlist, so we're gonna start doing a newsletter and as part of that, there's gonna be this.
00:05:09 Dan
Churning cause I bloody love music, I.
00:05:10 Dan
Feel like all art?
00:05:12 Dan
Is all our wishes. It was music, right? Yeah. It's the one thing it can bring you to tears. It can make you.
00:05:18 Dan
Really happy. And it's like so fast.
00:05:20 Mimi
Immediate and complete.
00:05:21 Paul
You think the photo can do that? She's sorry. Do you think a photograph can?
00:05:24 Paul
Do that, do you think?
00:05:25 Paul
Do you have you? Have you ever been? Have you ever had that same experience with a photograph as?
00:05:30 Paul
You've had with a piece of music.
00:05:31 Mimi
Well, to me there is a.
00:05:35 Mimi
A major factor? The fact that how do you experience photography now? There is a different sense is involved. There is different times involved, so you see a movie which are you, you watch a movie or you look at for the book or an exhibition or you listen to some music, the senses that you operate.
00:05:55 Mimi
To absorb that whatever piece of art and the timings indeed are different to these sequential images, there is one single image that there's an impact of emotional or rational. Whatever tells a narrative that you can read.
00:06:10 Mimi
With your heart or with your intellect, there is, you know, a variety of things in in, in movies you have sound, audio, you have the the the sequencing as well with music it seems.
00:06:28 Mimi
That you you managed to absorb the sense of it.
00:06:33 Mimi
In a flash.
00:06:35 Mimi
And then this flash, it's when the music is good, it's only expanded and it doesn't take anything away from that initial sparkle. OK, so I think that music indeed is may need it, and I don't know, also promote the must have something to do with our.
00:06:54 Mimi
Frequency, vibrations and whatever we have stored inside ourselves somehow.
00:07:02 Mimi
So yeah, I I I don't think photography is a complete piece of art by any means. Nevertheless, it's very enjoyable and I I find a lot of pleasure when I take pictures. Yeah. And there is that kind of spark that happens.
00:07:22 Mimi
You you know what Carter Bryson used to describe as the, you know, that kind of moment nowadays, the more books I collect and read the, you know, go through.
00:07:27 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:38 Mimi
The more I'm starting to have a similar feeling when I turn a page and I look at something that really resonates so.
00:07:48 Mimi
I enjoy fully photography, but music.
00:07:52 Mimi
There's no competition, I think.
00:07:54 Mimi
It's amazing music. It's really, yeah.
00:07:56 Dan
Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. I can't remember who it is. That said all art aspires to be.
00:08:00 Dan
Music, but it's true.
00:08:01 Mimi
Like music is is understood to take and replicated by kids.
00:08:07 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:08 Mimi
She's a boy and whatever we do is a different declination articulation of music and sound. We even when we whistle or when we hum or when we apply a rhythm to our steps. It's everywhere. Music in the rain, in the washing machine that goes.
00:08:27 Mimi
I have I have recorded my washing machine so many times in my life because there were some serious bits going on there. But in London and that is music.
00:08:37 Mimi
Too, yeah.
00:08:39 Mimi
So music is truly everywhere.
00:08:41 Mimi
And yeah, so yeah, the best.
00:08:44 Dan
Do you listen to music while you photograph?
00:08:46 Mimi
No, I never listen to music when I'm out on the streets. Never. I I'm a control freak coming to hear everything else that is around me. I never closed myself with with music, because for me is a very mercy live.
00:08:54 Paul
Me too.
00:09:02 Mimi
Experience music and I do what I want, or the other one. And you know by your friends that go on the bicycle or or walk or whatever from A&B and they have their own beautiful headsets. Whatever headphones. I could never ******* do that, you know, I.
00:09:20 Dan
You want to be plugged into the rhythm with the street, right?
00:09:22 Mimi
Yeah, totally. Totally. Also apart from the fact that it's dangerous, if you listen to the music and then listen to, you know, you might encourage action. But when I take pictures and the the accident is not in the equation, I want to be aware of what's going on. I've always been.
00:09:30 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:41 Mimi
For me, being aware, being sharp in the streets is the the first thing I mean sharp by. By saying sharp, I don't mean actually saw the because I also enjoy my drunk pictures whenever I'm in my past life I was going out often and take pictures at night time always.
00:10:01 Mimi
Have to be aware, even after a few drinks.
00:10:04 Mimi
Music would just absorb the the whole of me.
00:10:09 Dan
Distracting, right? What about when you're?
00:10:09 Mimi
I'm saying.
00:10:11 Dan
Like when you're editing or post processing.
00:10:14 Mimi
That one is more of a scene splits and music and whiskey or wine. They go very well. You had it in there, but then again the editing process as well, it's a complex one that happens. You know you can have a few intuitions, you can do something now, but then you need to sleep on it and you know, take it back.
00:10:21 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:35 Mimi
You are very sober.
00:10:38 Mimi
Sober and and and cold and clear. Yeah, totally. And we and we go back and forth between intuitions and reading, reading and intuitions, intuitions, and we, until you manage to do something that make a little bit of sense.
00:10:40 Dan
Like a revisit.
00:10:56 Mimi
Very difficult eating, editing, video and work really difficult.
00:11:00 Paul
I hate editing.
00:11:01 Mimi
I find it, but I mean, I prefer somebody else's work because I'm I'm freed by the constraints of your own ego. That has to drive everything that you know? Yeah.
00:11:07 Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:11 Dan
OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:14 Dan
And that feeling of.
00:11:16 Dan
What's what's the what's the adage? Do you need to kill your babies? Like it's really hard when you're looking at your own photographs to go ohh. This one isn't as good as the rest or doesn't fit this sequence. If you've got this attachment to it.
00:11:29 Dan
I think when you're editing someone else's, that's why I think it's so important to have somebody.
00:11:33 Dan
Else, look at your work.
00:11:35 Paul
Yeah. And you've got to get over that initially that.
00:11:37 Paul
That love for those photos. You just gotta let them go. You just gotta set them free. Almost. Right. There is a like you.
00:11:43 Paul
Just gotta be completely.
00:11:44 Paul
Like take this. There's gonna be something you're gonna love and some you're gonna hate. And I'm gonna trust what you say because I value your experience and you get a load of people. I think that that you get a kind of a, you know, 5678 people and you kind of working.
00:11:57 Paul
Bridges and what what works and yeah. Yeah, it's really.
00:12:00 Paul
Difficult though, isn't it? I still.
00:12:01 Paul
Find that really a difficult process, a torturous process, right?
00:12:05 Dan
Is is I still remember.
00:12:07 Dan
We were, so I helped Paul sequence. You bought a book out fairly recently. Not so far. Yeah. Why? No. I guess when was that?
00:12:15 Paul
Last year, no.
00:12:16 Dan
Was it really a year ago? But we had, what was it like 2-3 hundred prints? They're all up on that wall. We're kind of digging through them and having some pretty intense disagreements about what was good and what wasn't and.
00:12:30 Dan
Yeah, I don't know.
00:12:31 Dan
I feel like that process is super important.
00:12:33 Paul
I think it's the most important of them.
00:12:34 Paul
Right, I actually because.
00:12:37 Paul
Again, you've you've you've if you've photographed a project for a period of years, you almost become blind to it in a way, after a period of time and.
00:12:44 Paul
You you like.
00:12:45 Paul
You you forget what you've taken as well my memory like you know my short term memory is so rubbish that I might have taken a photo last week and I you know I'm taking so many photos that it's gone.
00:12:56 Paul
In is in some digital.
00:12:58 Paul
Drive is sat there and until you go back and look through the work again, I think that's the.
00:13:03 Paul
Other thing you.
00:13:04 Paul
Know going back and looking over your work continuously. Something I do. I love a slideshow with a bit of music. Yeah, and a spliff. I can just sit and watch photos. OK, I get it. Yeah. It's like it just takes you to that. I.
00:13:17 Paul
I think there's something like music.
00:13:18 Paul
Photos together I've.
00:13:19 Paul
Always loved those two things, so I chose.
00:13:22 Paul
Like that's my heaven.
00:13:26 Dan
Slideshows when you.
00:13:27 Dan
Do it on.
00:13:28 Dan
On those Apple computers, if you set up as your screensaver sighting, shuffle isn't on a.
00:13:32 Dan
Playlist they're just.
00:13:34 Paul
I like that frames one. It's only one. Do you know the one downstairs in the kitchen? And it's literally it just does random. And it what's interesting about that is it's picking random photos and putting them side by side. And sometimes something really interesting happened. Oh, ****. That's really cool. And that's just happening by coincidence by.
00:13:36 Dan
Yeah, I know. Yeah, I, I've.
00:13:37 Dan
I've got the.
00:13:38 Dan
Exact same one.
00:13:52 Paul
You know luck.
00:13:53 Paul
And now I think sometimes you just.
00:13:54 Paul
Gotta you know, trust that little spark, that that.
00:13:58 Paul
Puts you somewhere, then run with it for a bit. I think that's.
00:14:00 Dan
Really interesting. You know, So what are you looking for? What's what's a good?
00:14:04 Paul
Photo oh, there's no that's such $1,000,000 question and I right there's no good photo is.
00:14:09 Paul
There or every photo is a.
00:14:10 Mimi
Good photo. No, no, no, no. I think that you know there there is, you know.
00:14:14 Mimi
If you.
00:14:17 Mimi
When to address what is a good fault when I have immediately in the mind whatever comes from from, you know, from the street source.
00:14:28 Mimi
Material somehow. Of course there is the studio photographs, the portraits, the, the things that are amazing. But to me, the real essence of photographies within the streets and not because I define myself as a street photographer, but because.
00:14:48 Mimi
One element magical magical element of photography is that moment that encapsulates.
00:14:58 Mimi
You know, concepts, ideas, emotions that come together in the frame for one fraction of a cycle, and the photographers, the skills, the presence or the lack. We've captured that and and then everything else adds.
00:15:13 Mimi
To to eat too. You can find amazing. As I said, photo photographs that they belong to Portugal still life even anything really can be landscape but.
00:15:25 Mimi
The father was with.
00:15:28 Mimi
That works for everything within that frame. Makes sense.
00:15:34 Mimi
And is placed in the right position at the right time. That is something that we will.
00:15:41 Mimi
Emotions. Is there a picture that's bringing to mind right now that?
00:15:45 Dan
Feels perfect. It could be one of your own. It could be something else.
00:15:48 Mimi
Plenty less of the ones I took more of the ones.
00:15:55 Paul
Same same same.
00:15:56 Mimi
More of the ones that I've seen in the transition from, you know, from to Bryson to Alex Webb to, you know, to to, you know, you name it.
00:16:04 Dan
Oh my God, Alex claim.
00:16:08 Mimi
But but then again I I keep on discovering younger new photographers that are mind blowing and they are totally different from the tradition of Bryson and black and white St. photography. And they are more elaborate or just whatever you want to say.
00:16:29 Mimi
A 32nd tenuous source of inspiration for me. This is the reason why I utilize the social media on a daily basis. More to discover work more than more than, say, my own saying about things. So social media for me is wonderful.
00:16:48 Mimi
Because you know, you keep on being bombarded with the images that and and some of those are fantastic and we discover New York, new people, new things, new trends.
00:16:58 Mimi
Amazing. So yeah, great.
00:17:00 Dan
Is there anyone you found recently that?
00:17:02 Mimi
Yeah, but I cannot remember the names. I always forget them.
00:17:05 Dan
I know, I know. I've got the worst memory.
00:17:06 Mimi
There is an Indian guy. There is mind-blowing that utilizes a light that is fantastic. He's really cinematographic in in that it looks very much like staged kind of lighting. And it's not right. And he and he knows this guy knows how to capture light.
00:17:27 Mimi
It's like he has it. Within whom?
00:17:30 Dan
Sniff out you are totally.
00:17:32 Mimi
Is they must have for some sort.
00:17:33 Mimi
Of lie within.
00:17:36 Mimi
You see, these reminds me something that I was said to myself whenever I discover new photographer, I will screenshot to the Instagram account to whatever website and I will eventually produce a list.
00:17:49 Mimi
And I started doing these, but not with the new ones, only with the, only with the usual suspects that I needed to, at least during the election or whatever. But yeah, I will go back and and look at it. I have my phone in airplane mode at the moment, but.
00:18:06 Mimi
As soon as I will finish, I will go back and we'll go on Instagram or Facebook. And remember, even when I've seen it, we have seen it and we remember the name.
00:18:18 Paul
Yeah. Mimi, Mr. speaking. Spoken to a lot of photographers. Have you ever come across anybody with like, like the real self police, but all their images are great like.
00:18:26 Paul
OK, this is.
00:18:27 Paul
Good, this is, you know that real.
00:18:28 Paul
Like sort.
00:18:29 Paul
You need a ranker, but maybe not a ******.
00:18:33 Paul
Because I think he's a.
00:18:34 Paul
I think it's difficult as a photographer, if you if you do come across as arrogant or there's a fine line, right, but there's some, there's some.
00:18:41 Paul
I was thinking of.
00:18:41 Paul
Bernadette, who isn't a wonk who is an.
00:18:43 Paul
Artist, he's not.
00:18:44 Paul
A photographer, but she starts showing. What is she?
00:18:46 Paul
Yeah, but she has this.
00:18:48 Paul
Drive, which is really interesting that I I.
00:18:51 Paul
I believe in herself and.
00:18:52 Paul
Her work right and I.
00:18:53 Paul
I kind of it's quite.
00:18:54 Paul
I don't know. I kind of find that quite.
00:18:58 Paul
Attractive as a British person who's constantly, you know, the British whole thing is like we're.
00:19:02 Dan
A bit ****.
00:19:04 Dan
Very self deprecating.
00:19:05 Paul
Yeah, very self deprecating and I was just wondering considering you must have spoken to a lot of photographers over your time like has anybody ever come across some you have to make name names but who has that inner belief that their work is that good that it should be?
00:19:19 Paul
I don't know up there. Does that make?
00:19:21 Paul
Sense, yeah, I think.
00:19:22 Mimi
So yeah, well, I plenty. I mean, I'm from.
00:19:26 Paul
And do you think do you think do you think that matters like do you think in terms of achievement and achieving in the in the in the that's where I want?
00:19:32 Mimi
I think that the the there is a very good element of this. OK, you obviously you cannot allow these element to.
00:19:43 Mimi
Deplete into our organs and sheer stupidity, but believing in your work, appreciating and respecting your work, I think it's a very important step for you to move forward and to make you work in some sort of sense for others.
00:20:04 Mimi
And then from you, because if you believe in your work, you will want to create outputs. You will want this work to be seen and therefore you, you you start moving the whole machine and you.
00:20:20 Mimi
However, finding people that have a very good balance between believing in the work, thinking there is good and not being arrogant is, you know, unfortunately is a little bit more, uh, more thing and and also mind you be be always conscious of.
00:20:41 Mimi
Yourself when you confront yourself with others.
00:20:45 Mimi
Because yourself, for your own ego, when you measure yourself with others, can come in between and spoil you the reading that you would have of that person meaning.
00:21:03 Mimi
If you speak to someone who believes in in their work and the work happened to be fine, work and you.
00:21:14 Mimi
Look at that and you might sometimes have a little ego that you know as you know, start making you uncomfortable and you wish you were him or her and you wish you were believing in your work. And then your frustration come through and then your vision comes blurry.
00:21:34 Mimi
And you don't know anymore how to judge or consider the person so yourselves element when you can see those others is always very, very important. And I tend to struggle with my own ego and not.
00:21:52 Mimi
I don't have the ego. When I run my workshops. When I lecture, I I really become kind of Buddhist and that's magical for someone like me because usually my ego is far too big and comes very often in the equation and that is the way I experience.
00:22:13 Mimi
Older I experience things and I produce my own work. I wish I had the same few, the few very little tiny degree of of the time I have where I.
00:22:27 Mimi
Teach photography when I when I workshop.
00:22:32 Mimi
But you know you will not take it on.
00:22:35 Dan
Is that just putting the student first though?
00:22:37 Mimi
Totally. Yeah. You you know that you, your knowledge, your experience is at service of someone else and you have the moral obligation of making the most out of that.
00:22:50 Mimi
And they're also, if you are a real passion for photography, eventually you have to reduce your ego whether you like it or not, whether you want or not, it becomes an automatic thing. If your passion for teaching is true. And this happens quite naturally with me.
00:23:10 Mimi
In fact, I I have only had very great experiences with with my workshops and with teaching, really beautiful, and I feel that this is because I reduce my my ego.
00:23:25 Mimi
And and I like to I give space.
00:23:29 Mimi
Levels to present the world, to articulate the thoughts, and I can support that thing.
00:23:35 Mimi
Yeah, yeah. Having a supportive world more than anything.
00:23:40 Dan
Else, how long have you been lecturing now?
00:23:42 Mimi
Lecturing in the unit.
00:23:45 Mimi
Officially, only since a couple of years I started.
00:23:51 Mimi
Three years ago, something like that in Holloway, London met, and then I went on to London, met Algate and the University of East London.
00:24:01 Mimi
And I do only, you know, two days a week or one day a week from January, and which is cool because I have the time to do.
00:24:08 Mimi
My own things.
00:24:10 Mimi
But I've been running workshops since 2011.
00:24:14 Mimi
And the two things are not too dissimilar.
00:24:17 Dan
Do you feel like those workshops and those lectures have informed your own practice?
00:24:22 Mimi
100 percent, 100%. I've learned so much.
00:24:27 Mimi
And you know, I don't believe them. If I you learn from Stevens, you might get lucky to have a student. They inspire you. But to me, the the man beat comes from the fact that you are forced to break down concepts to study photographers, to analyze things in order to be able to acquire a cloudy.
00:24:47 Mimi
That allows you to deliver concepts, ideas and your information seamlessly and flawless, sly and these.
00:24:58 Mimi
This continues research.
00:25:02 Mimi
And continues thinking process then and reaches your own practice.
00:25:09 Dan
You know, that makes so much sense.
00:25:11 Dan
I've never. I've never thought about it like that.
00:25:13 Dan
The way that you.
00:25:15 Dan
You have to break down those concepts of someone.
00:25:17 Dan
Else teaches you I think you.
00:25:19 Dan
Considered that.
00:25:19 Paul
You have to do so much research, right? But your time is like Googling constantly, like different photographers the way.
00:25:24 Paul
They were processes.
00:25:25 Dan
Reading he's a.
00:25:25 Paul
Anyways, it's.
00:25:26 Dan
Google Ninja for sure.
00:25:29 Dan
Black belt in Google.
00:25:33 Mimi
No, but then then is is very important because you know you you know there there are authors such as the company who is such a marvelous genius or such a marvelous mind. Yes. Not only his profound knowledge, but the way he delivers extremely complex.
00:25:40 Paul
Yeah, Dave.
00:25:43 Paul
If knowledge, right?
00:25:54 Mimi
Bumps with as as he's drinking a clear.
00:25:58 Mimi
Glass of water? Yeah, it's it's.
00:25:59 Mimi
Unbelievable. And then you got, you know, it's like I get it, it's like.
00:26:07 Dan
Have you met?
00:26:07 Mimi
Marvelous. Always my very good friend.
00:26:07 Paul
David, have you ever? Yeah.
00:26:09 Paul
Is he OK?
00:26:10 Mimi
Interesting and and also he's gonna be one of them. Next special guest tutors of the CC for domestic class together with Maria Marotta.
00:26:18 Mimi
OK.
00:26:19 Mimi
But I I know David since, uh, many years since possibly 2002, 2003.
00:26:26 Paul
OK.
00:26:27 Mimi
I am very, very good friends. I love him.
00:26:30 Mimi
And he is 1.
00:26:33 Mimi
Guy that you know, I can definitely say that that he pushed me in my work and to do you know he he kind of offered me the very first big break. I'm in street photography now because of him.
00:26:47 Mimi
I was published in the C Photo magazine from Ivory Press. Because of him, I exhibited the yeah, the job with space because of him. And I found out the format of Terra Nostra in terms of book because of him. David is a precious person.
00:27:07 Mimi
And I owe him a lot. A lot.
00:27:10 Dan
As it as he lived.
00:27:10 Paul
It is used london-based David or not as.
00:27:12 Mimi
Ohh, in New York, London and then now more often in London.
00:27:12 Paul
He will.
00:27:16 Paul
OK, OK.
00:27:18 Mimi
Yes, but you know he introduced me to you know when when I was to.
00:27:24 Mimi
Producing feral ostra I wasn't sure about the size and format of the book, and I wanted to see David and we had a look through quite a few of these books and he showed me this incredible book by Jeremy Funker, A Czech photographer from the.
00:27:41 Mimi
Early 19199 up until 1950s, something like that 1940s.
00:27:50 Mimi
An incredible book called Photograph of photographs.
00:27:56 Mimi
Jeremy Funk and I took exactly the same format of the book and the same size, the same aspect ratio.
00:28:05 Mimi
And you know why? This is one of the.
00:28:10 Mimi
Many things that I have to thank David for and and he's the least one days of of importance. But when he introduced me to Stephen McLaren, the author of St. Photography now then a new chapter of my life, I don't remember.
00:28:24 Paul
How old were you then?
00:28:28 Dan
That long?
00:28:29 Mimi
I'm with you.
00:28:30 Mimi
I'm really bad in arithmetic. I'm I'm really mouths conceptually ideally, but I'm not good in arithmetic so it was 2010, 2011. I think about the time when Magic did the the book I think.
00:28:47 Mimi
This and and then after that we receive and I I I read the three books with them with pins and hats and I mean I I I was featured in books.
00:28:59 Mimi
Street photography was the first one. Then there was photographers, the sketchbook.
00:29:05 Mimi
Which is now super spacious.
00:29:05 Paul
Yeah, yeah, I got.
00:29:06 Paul
That from my informals right. Brian formals in. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:10 Mimi
Yeah. And Stephen McLaren and then family photography. Now again with Sophia. Sophia.
00:29:19 Mimi
And then the sea, I think.
00:29:24 Mimi
But great, great chapter in my life. But that was the time where, due to the car was being also awarded the exhibited published so that there's there's been a big thing with the that piece of work which I have to still do.
00:29:44 Mimi
I'm holograph.
00:29:45 Paul
What you working on now?
00:29:47 Mimi
I'm working on 2/3 projects on my own and a book that I'm producing now with my new work New City. The one I found.
00:29:58 Mimi
From a balcony with telescope. And so we have been currently on the last adjustments of the book design and cycles and it looks really, really good. And yes, I'll and I'll chat with the Roman pads, a very good friend of mine's book designer.
00:30:17 Mimi
More than a book designer, I mean book designer is a Q8 or more than a graphic designer. Someone that doesn't miss empowers. So it's it's a genius guy I'm working though with Victoria Forest, with another amazing book designer with fantastic ideas.
00:30:36 Mimi
And the essay we had a chapter showed in Victoria's cycles, and we had a very, very good, constructive chat. You suggested a few things that I researched independently, but I found great, great confirmation by Ramon.
00:30:54 Mimi
And I think that the book will come out beautifully.
00:30:57 Paul
When is it going to come out, you see?
00:30:58 Mimi
I don't know yet. I don't know. You're seeing design need to. We have to steal. Decide if I will self publish or find a publisher. I would love a self publisher. Mean clean, inclined in self-publishing. But you never know.
00:31:14 Mimi
And then we have to find the format to the paper store, but the main difficult bit is finding a good sequencing is the biggest.
00:31:26 Paul
What? What? What's your process then? Is it the same as everybody else? Print them all out.
00:31:29 Paul
Stick them on.
00:31:30 Mimi
The wall move them around. Usually I do, but usually I do these where I work.
00:31:34 Mimi
With analog OK.
00:31:35 Mimi
OK. And I see work with analog. When I work with digital thing then you know photography.
00:31:44 Mimi
I I hate it and I hate to say it, but I I I dreamed only later on.
00:31:53 Mimi
I I I.
00:31:54 Mimi
Like to start a process in a way and finish it organically. So if I work with analog photography I will produce my own contact sheets with the contact sheets and will select the ones that that make it to the first big selection print.
00:32:13 Mimi
Images and then out of those printed images I start shuffling about. But if I work with digital I use bridge which is practically some sort of.
00:32:25 Dan
It's like a big chess client.
00:32:25 Mimi
Digital cable? Yeah, exactly. However, I need print east London close, which was done digitally. So the you know.
00:32:35 Paul
OK, I'm going to tell you about good app. Everybody is a good point to tell you there's an app called free flow and it's basically like a light table. You can just drop all of your.
00:32:43 Paul
Photos on and it's a massive white.
00:32:46 Paul
And you can just move and it's so simple.
00:32:49 Mimi
I like Moodle. Yeah, like a light bulb, but.
00:32:52 Paul
Yeah, like a white one. And you just drop them all on and then you can put them on all your screens, you know? And it's it's good, it's good, it's and it's really simple as well. You just literally put a folder of images, drop them in and then just move them freely and scale them really easy just by pinching and ah.
00:32:54 Dan
Oh, that's cool.
00:33:07 Dan
That's really cool. Is that for like, what is that?
00:33:09 Paul
It's for iPad, iPad, iPad or.
00:33:12 Mimi
Having said that, eventually I will print my stuff and we'll see how it works, how it flows, because turning the pages that.
00:33:15 Paul
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:19 Dan
It hits different, right? That physical interaction hits different.
00:33:19 Mimi
Experience yeah. Problem.
00:33:21 Mimi
Problem and because it will become a physical thing.
00:33:25 Mimi
Then printing becomes necessary, but at the moment I haven't I I did print in city but I haven't laid it out, only done the selection of the most successful images and I I will see maybe as soon as I have.
00:33:47 Mimi
Close to be a definite selection will print the the size you know the the magnitude of whatever layer the table will be reduced contained so I can physically juggle them and then they will be good. But at the moment I even to relied on the printed matter in order to.
00:34:07 Mimi
Do the sequencing.
00:34:09 Dan
I think you gave us what you came in and did a talk at LCC where I'm a student and I think you gave us a little sneak peek at that Moon City project. Yeah. What I've seen is very cool. It's not like anything I've seen before.
00:34:23 Dan
It's very cool.
00:34:24 Mimi
Yeah, these. Yeah, these.
00:34:26 Paul
Are like to talk about it.
00:34:27 Paul
A little bit and worry about. Yeah. Yeah, that's.
00:34:29 Paul
Cool to yourself. Published sometimes, sometimes people you know.
00:34:30 Mimi
I haven't signed, I haven't signed any NDA.
00:34:35 Dan
People like to keep their cards.
00:34:36 Dan
Close to their chest sometimes, but.
00:34:39 Mimi
No, no, no. I think it's beneficial.
00:34:41 Mimi
To talk about it rather.
00:34:43 Paul
Yeah, totally.
00:34:44 Mimi
Oh yes, Moon City is is a dialogue that are created between the national force embodied by the Moon and the human man-made capitalist element represented by the empty buildings of the City of London, which are.
00:35:04 Mimi
Opposite my balcony and my my, my take on it is some sort of.
00:35:19 Mimi
In a moment where we have reached an apex.
00:35:23 Mimi
Climax in in in these.
00:35:28 Mimi
Sort of clash between nature and us, where you're at, you know, the environment is going bananas and we have.
00:35:39 Mimi
****** ** big time. Capitalist capitalism just doesn't work, and it makes us all worse human beings.
00:35:49 Mimi
And I think in this moment, having a quieter, more poetic representation of these clash, you know, in the form of two main elements which are the City of London, the buildings called Buildings, almost film noir.
00:36:10 Mimi
And maintain the the mean which is poetic, his comforting his.
00:36:16 Mimi
These multiple has multiple identities somehow for whatever we see on it.
00:36:24 Mimi
I think it's a good.
00:36:27 Mimi
Reflective the moment.
00:36:30 Dan
You said there was a link.
00:36:31 Dan
To a book when you were chatting.
00:36:32 Dan
To us didn't.
00:36:33 Dan
You. That was it, a novel or was.
00:36:35 Dan
It a poem. I I can't remember.
00:36:38 Mimi
These the several the one what what you are referring about is referring to is perampanel's Charles Copeland Luna, which in English is the crowd discovers the moon, which is a story of these poor and a little bit slow. Minor, who was forced to work on the mines until late at night.
00:36:59 Mimi
From his ruthless master.
00:37:03 Mimi
And when you know this, this guy Charlie was a little bit, you know, slow and you know, really scared about the dark but not the dark of the mind to which he was used to. But he was scared of the of the coordinate less the dark of the of the heels of the outside. But when he came out.
00:37:24 Mimi
After that, the night shift is so the contour of the heels around of the Sicilian countryside and he was able to see this because of the full moon to which he looked up and you know in in all and he started crying with the thanking the men.
00:37:44 Mimi
For this gift, and that was very bright. But also there is it a local windows. The distance from the moon, which is a fantastic reference where there are some passages that I'd like to use.
00:37:58 Mimi
For mean City, but then the text should be written by possibly Rhiannon, Adam and Brad Farron.
00:38:08 Mimi
So we have enough backs that we could use and within reach my work could be found.
00:38:18 Mimi
I'm confident and I start feeling a good friction between my idea, my vision, and what actually is becoming, because up until I have given I I haven't been been given the work to Victoria, I was quite lost in Victoria, really offered me.
00:38:39 Mimi
A chance to have a look at my work from a different perspective. She's really, really good.
00:38:44 Paul
Victoria, who is it? Sorry.
00:38:45 Mimi
Victoria. Vika books. OK, vika.
00:38:48 Mimi
She's got a few, a few good books, one with Martin Power, one with the Bulgarian, then the latest one. The Renault is with Roland Ramanan, the Domino's.
00:39:00 Paul
Yeah, yeah, we had.
00:39:01 Dan
You you helped sequence that, didn't you? Yeah.
00:39:03 Mimi
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:04 Mimi
And you see, I did the the work that I could do. And then Victoria did the work that she should have done. And she did bring.
00:39:12 Mimi
Putting in pages and of course there it when you think about it as a linear output is a different thing than wherever you put to. You translate into book form and there I couldn't help while Victoria was, you know, perfect. In fact the book is fantastic.
00:39:32 Dan
I'm really excited to see.
00:39:35 Dan
I'm really excited to see dominoes.
00:39:36 Mimi
And also refreshing to have again something that is ****** by factual, fact based, and so factual yet poetic journals consider it, but really still as that that kind of law and real element to it is refreshing.
00:39:44 Paul
Yeah. Actually, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:58 Mimi
Now I look at Photographies staged. He's performative. He's self rented and these altruistic view on the outside, I find it really refreshing without being traditionally boring reportage in that way. Yeah.
00:40:09 Paul
What? What?
00:40:14 Paul
There, there is a lot of boring rapportage out there, as well as repeated over and over the same thing, and you're looking and you're going. You're not telling me anything. You. There's no, there's no narrative here. Then it's the same thing over and over. I was going to ask you about.
00:40:28 Paul
I mean, we've talked a couple of times about about.
00:40:31 Paul
How almost.
00:40:34 Paul
And I don't read your lecturers well, maybe it's quite.
00:40:37 Paul
Press here is how maybe St. photography within academia is slightly frowned upon, and this idea of it's a a lesser art form. Does that make sense of you? You have. You felt that before, have I? The ethical, the ethical side of it, you know, in that how?
00:40:45 Dan
Voice by the ethical.
00:40:52 Paul
How we?
00:40:54 Paul
You know this. It's been a big it's been a massive debate, right? It's been debated for years and and and and how how you yourself take pictures with the with the ethical considerations and how you how you operate as a photographer in in that world and what.
00:41:08 Paul
Your feelings are on it.
00:41:10 Mimi
Well, the difficult question is.
00:41:16 Mimi
We want to consider yes, of course, you don't want to invade too much. The privacy of others. The despite the fact that once you, once you hit the road, your private self has to be put on the side anyway because you know you you don't go.
00:41:32 Mimi
Masturbate on the Kingston High Road. No, because.
00:41:35 Dan
Speak for yourself.
00:41:37 Mimi
For you last night your your privacy, your privacy is obviously needed anyhow. However, you do have that element that has come since in social media and exchange of visual information that is possibly a little bit excess.
00:41:55 Mimi
But for me the main issue is not the ethical, but is the the fact that the people get more and more angry on the streets when you when.
00:42:02 Mimi
You take pictures.
00:42:04 Mimi
And I think this is very frustrating. I don't like confrontations. I've been in zillions of arguments and things. I'm I'm I'm also. I've also grown very subconscious.
00:42:15 Mimi
And I hate that when I take pictures, I I I can feel someone looking from my back and like I must be breathing on my neck and and being judgmental and and minding my own businesses when they shouldn't.
00:42:21 Paul
Yeah, it's a horrible feeling.
00:42:28 Mimi
And I hate all of these. These frustrates the creative process, so.
00:42:35 Mimi
You know, I see take pictures on the streets, but there are some that I lose their needs that I I don't have the guts to take to take.
00:42:43 Mimi
And and I.
00:42:45 Mimi
I don't forgive myself for these. I feel **** and it becomes all very stressful. See, I do it too, but I do. I don't do it with the same.
00:42:55 Mimi
You see, there used to be, but I used to have before.
00:42:58 Paul
You you kind of as you as you age, you kind of almost. What's the word?
00:43:02 Dan
Do you think that's what it is? So so is it?
00:43:03 Mimi
I don't know.
00:43:04 Dan
Like is it modern society that's getting more and more private or is it we're getting older?
00:43:07 Paul
Well, I was.
00:43:10 Dan
And more self-control.
00:43:11 Paul
I was thinking about Trevor Waste Cup right there for St. photographer from New York or travel. And I'll tell you why it's relevant now is that he's a young guy and we he did a video recently on on YouTube with.
00:43:22 Dan
40 be.
00:43:23 Paul
Poorly be and it was quite it was playing up to the camera. First of all, we'll say that right, we'll I'll caveat this all, but it was.
00:43:29 Paul
Really, he was like he was out. He's like a young Bruce Gilden. He's the only way you can describe it. You know, there's.
00:43:34 Dan
Cameron face but slightly kinder, less less, less abrasive.
00:43:36 Paul
Slight slightly kindness.
00:43:38 Paul
Let's embrace it. But there was there was an energy to him and I really. I really. I I remember myself like 20 years ago. And I was. I thought this it's definitely something that as a younger younger man you're less maybe fearful or maybe like because you spent 20 years understanding and researching and speaking to photographers. You understand the world in which you live in. And whereas at that point in your career you're so early on that.
00:44:00 Paul
You don't have any of those preconceptions of what it is you just out.
00:44:03 Paul
Taking pictures and there's something beautiful about that. I.
00:44:05 Dan
Think this is also gonna throw it out there, though I I didn't really understand this until I.
00:44:09 Dan
Went there but.
00:44:10 Dan
New York's got a very different.
00:44:11 Dan
Energy the energy.
00:44:12 Dan
Of New York, it doesn't feel like such an issue to be doing that that doesn't feel like an abrasive thing to be doing, and I'm sure you get into the occasional argument there doing it.
00:44:23 Dan
But if you shoot in the way that you shoot in London in New York, it's like, I don't know.
00:44:29 Dan
You've almost gotta.
00:44:30 Dan
Be a little bit more aggressive. You look at the way they drive out there and stuff, there's.
00:44:33 Paul
There's a bit more of a it's it's not, it's, you know, reacting to where you're going. It's you as a person who's taking the picture. So if you go to New York, you think you would change the way you take.
00:44:44 Dan
I felt it like I was in New York and I felt like a little bit more able to that immediacy that you.
00:44:51 Dan
Were talking about earlier.
00:44:52 Dan
Me. Like where? Where you were saying that there's there's a hesitation when you're walking around London and you feel like a bit self-conscious about it, that there's there's an energy.
00:45:01 Mimi
In New York that.
00:45:03 Dan
I don't know it.
00:45:03 Paul
Suppresses that a little, but I I think you can. I think it's almost like a mindset. I actually believe that you can if you. If you all walked out the street this morning, I feel like boys.
00:45:11 Paul
We're gonna go.
00:45:12 Paul
Out and take three photos. We're gonna be fully.
00:45:13 Paul
On it, I reckon it's free. You can.
00:45:15 Paul
Put yourself into a.
00:45:16 Paul
State of mind. Where you all. You're almost.
00:45:21 Paul
No, not what the word I'm I'm trying to find. Like there's an energy that you can take and you've gotta it's gotta be a right energy. You've got to be in the right mood. But if you go out, I think.
00:45:29 Paul
You, you. You.
00:45:30 Paul
Go and take pictures of how you're feeling, right? They reflect how you're feeling and I'm like, like, I just think it's almost it's you.
00:45:37 Paul
It's internal rather than.
00:45:38 Dan
I think it's half and half I I think a place does also have an energy and I know that you bring your.
00:45:43 Dan
Own into it.
00:45:43 Dan
And that is huge and not to be understated. But I think also places have an energy and I.
00:45:48
I think.
00:45:50 Dan
The people talk about like, there's been rap songs about the New York State of mind, you know, I mean, like, there's there's there's a different energy in New York than there is in, in anywhere else I've been. And I've been to a bunch of different cities, but I think it's it's a special place.
00:46:06 Paul
I just think it's busy, right? It's a busy city. It's a really busy, busy. Lots of people. But then again, if, like if you talk some circus, I think you you can feel like you're in.
00:46:15 Paul
New York.
00:46:16 Paul
Pretty quickly, you know, on a Christmas shopping day, I don't know. I think I think that energy, I don't know. I I I personally think the energy comes from you and whether whether.
00:46:18 Dan
I don't know.
00:46:24 Dan
Yeah, maybe.
00:46:26 Paul
And then, you know, downtown Manhattan or in Oxford St. in London. It it's my state of mind that's going to produce the work.
00:46:26
Right.
00:46:33 Dan
People talk to other people, though.
00:46:35 Dan
I've noticed that and if you in a lot of places in the states.
00:46:38 Paul
Rachel, those new racks are just really bad.
00:46:40 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean.
00:46:42 Dan
It doesn't matter where you are in.
00:46:43 Dan
The states it.
00:46:43 Dan
Feels like people are a lot more into their community and they'll stop and have a chat with a random stranger. And in London everyone it feels like everyone wants.
00:46:49 Paul
And that's it.
00:46:50 Paul
That's in South Wales too.
00:46:51 Paul
That's in Southland, and I can go down my street. But I think again, I'd I'd argue.
00:46:55 Paul
The point that it's you.
00:46:56 Dan
Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe you just in holiday mode and you're having the best time and insighting conversations in, I don't know.
00:47:00 Paul
You I think you just gotta put your voice.
00:47:02 Paul
I think as a photographer as well, I think it's part of your role sometimes has to put yourself into that receptive, almost open wherever, wherever the camera takes me, I'm going to go almost right and and you know, whether you're in New York or you.
00:47:18 Paul
Bloody bonds worth. I think it's to say I don't know. I maybe I'm wrong, or maybe I you're right.
00:47:22 Paul
I mean, what do you think?
00:47:24 Mimi
I think that you know the the, the the different context often different or revealing different characteristics of it is something that definitely a photographer.
00:47:39 Mimi
Response to yeah, the internal frame of mind, the the the personal photographic attitude that you employ to take picture.
00:47:51 Mimi
He's been a game, an element to that, you know, will drive.
00:48:00 Mimi
You to take whatever sort of pictures like for instance you mentioned before this give them the boost view the images which I love.
00:48:09 Mimi
If you if you see the work from a Haiti or maybe other work from Coney Island is very different from the ones of Manhattan with the Flash, and he's yet again different from the one that he's doing now.
00:48:28 Mimi
And he's not really.
00:48:32 Mimi
My kind of photography, I mean, I did employ a bit of it.
00:48:39 Mimi
In east London, up close where it was very close to the people flashing daylight and that is the closest I I I've been to the boss give them kind of attitude, but to me I prefer their observational work. When you're a little bit more decent, you look at things.
00:48:59 Mimi
Can you observe a scene?
00:49:01 Mimi
And you don't need to point at one element, but you invite the viewer to look at all the frame.
00:49:09 Mimi
And therefore the the there is more of our observational and laid back attitude from the photographer, but the regular in each city gives you different vibes, and each city has different characteristics and you know you you mentioned New York.
00:49:18
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:29 Mimi
You mentioned London by even Palermo. Palermo is super great to take pictures of.
00:49:34 Mimi
And and and he's got nothing to do with London or New York. So the energy of Palermo.
00:49:40 Mimi
I don't know how to compare it to London because I and I know three the the three cities.
00:49:47 Mimi
You know, we work not that well. I've only been once, but I no longer empowered me very well. But I couldn't define the different in energy. They have different energies. But I wouldn't be able to break it down now.
00:50:01 Mimi
The thing is that there is one thing who is more self-conscious or not so Parmesan. I'm not self-conscious at all, they just.
00:50:10 Mimi
Don't give a.
00:50:10 Mimi
**** pretty much like New Yorkers London people is very self-conscious, you know. It's not only you and the things that you do, but it's you.
00:50:22 Mimi
The things you do.
00:50:23 Mimi
And how you are perceived from others. I'm sorry. Excuse me. Beg your pardon. All this ******** feature slows down your your daily routine a lot, but I'm I'm kind of British because I've been in here for.
00:50:26 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:38 Mimi
27 years yes.
00:50:40 Mimi
I also grew self-conscious, you see.
00:50:44 Dan
How many times do you say I'm sorry? A day?
00:50:46 Mimi
I don't know.
00:50:47 Dan
This is the test. This is the.
00:50:48 Dan
Test of how British.
00:50:49 Dan
You are, you say we say I'm sorry so many times.
00:50:51 Paul
I you know, sometimes I wait for people to go these days before, if I'm taking a picture of something that's like, you know, an object honestly and wait for people to go before it. Can I just? I just like, oh, my God. What? I can't think. What? What's this weird guy taking a photo of this thing for? Like I this part of me in London has gone that way. Was before when I was younger, I was complete. I did not give a fact. Like, I really didn't care.
00:51:11 Paul
It was really.
00:51:12 Paul
There was an innocence of whatever you call it, bravado. But, but that's a that's like a now touching 50. There's definitely a different approach in terms of.
00:51:22 Paul
And I think that's sometimes, I think, ****, we are feel.
00:51:24 Paul
A bit guilty for that I.
00:51:25 Paul
Feel like why is that? Why society made me feel that way? Why have we?
00:51:29 Paul
Been trying have been condition.
00:51:29
But does that bring?
00:51:30 Dan
You a a maturity and a.
00:51:31 Paul
Complexity to your work, or do you think it just gets in the way? I sometimes think if you just go out and photograph what you see and how you feel, that's kind of what I I believe like I think this if you can if you can somehow.
00:51:43 Paul
What's the word?
00:51:44 Paul
Transfer how you're.
00:51:45 Paul
Feeling into a set of images? Then that's a marvelous thing. But.
00:51:51 Paul
Well when like.
00:51:52 Paul
I also think there's something with experience and knowledge that that enriching the work as well I.
00:51:56 Paul
Think that they.
00:51:57 Paul
They they're both sides of the same coin in.
00:51:59 Paul
A way right that yeah.
00:52:00 Paul
That you know.
00:52:01 Dan
I'm but I'm.
00:52:02 Dan
Still not sure, like I know we've had this.
00:52:04 Dan
Chat before, but I I don't know.
00:52:08 Dan
Unless you're in a very specific situation, I don't know that your.
00:52:12 Dan
Your feelings as a.
00:52:13 Dan
Photographer really are imbued in that photo. Maybe they're.
00:52:17 Dan
Not I I I I feel like you.
00:52:19 Mimi
Read a lot.
00:52:20 Dan
Of it as.
00:52:21 Paul
Well, everybody will read it.
00:52:22 Dan
As a viewer.
00:52:22 Paul
Differently, right? Right.
00:52:23 Dan
More than.
00:52:24 Dan
More than a photographer?
00:52:26 Dan
Like you've got a picture. Who's?
00:52:28 Dan
Just behind you there.
00:52:29
Right.
00:52:30 Dan
Jim Mottram. So this Jim Mordred. We don't know what Jim was thinking at this exact time. We can we can see what he was saying.
00:52:36 Paul
That, you know, that's a that's you just hit on an amazing plant, but we don't know that about any photograph that exists on planet.
00:52:42 Dan
Earth. That that was, that's what.
00:52:43 Paul
Right. There's no, we don't know how we can we can try and judge how we feel. We can quite kind of try and put our own biases and our own. We'll views onto those photographs and then yeah, you know.
00:52:43 Dan
I was saying like, I don't know, that's I don't think there's any.
00:52:55 Mimi
Yeah, but how relevant it is all of these.
00:52:59 Paul
Yeah. How? How important is it?
00:52:59 Mimi
In that, yeah, in that if you produce the same fever I.
00:53:04 Mimi
I don't really focus on what the photographer was feeling there, what he was. His friend of mine or her friend of mine or whatever. I look at the photographs and and I see what they suggest to me. Then if I want to write about the photography, if I want to research about the photographer and then the focus is.
00:53:24 Mimi
Not as much the photograph, but he is the photographer. As an artist, as an author. But the photograph to me, I I I.
00:53:33 Mimi
Really, you know.
00:53:36 Mimi
I focus on the photograph.
00:53:38 Mimi
Then whatever the state of mind, whatever was thinking, whatever was blah blah.
00:53:45 Mimi
Comes on a second, uh.
00:53:49 Dan
That's the curse of the being the photographer, right? That's exactly where somebody else needs to review your Reddit, because there's too.
00:53:55 Dan
Much of you?
00:53:56 Dan
In there like.
00:53:57 Dan
You have. You have a sentimental attachment, like so this.
00:54:00 Dan
Is one of Paul's.
00:54:01 Dan
SOS now.
00:54:04 Dan
The way I read this is probably very different to the way Paul reads it, because I don't know what frame of mind.
00:54:09 Paul
Paul was in, I don't know what frame of mind I was in. That's the interesting part. Yeah. I don't know how I.
00:54:12 Dan
You've forgotten.
00:54:13 Paul
Was feeling in the moment I took that photo right this.
00:54:15 Mimi
In fact.
00:54:16 Mimi
Proves though it's not that important.
00:54:18 Paul
Yeah, isn't it? It doesn't it right, I mean.
00:54:20 Paul
That's gonna make. Wow. That's like a real.
00:54:22 Mimi
Reservation to me that.
00:54:22 Dan
We've been, we've been having this chat for like.
00:54:25 Paul
That's like the biggest revelation.
00:54:26 Mimi
Ever. Will you be my dad?
00:54:33 Paul
It is. That's so that's so true, right?
00:54:35 Paul
It is like you don't.
00:54:36 Paul
You can you remember how you were.
00:54:38 Dan
Feeling. No, I know. I I I don't, I.
00:54:40 Dan
Can't remember why for breakfast this morning like.
00:54:42 Paul
I and and it's afterwards it's in the edit that you're putting that feeling together.
00:54:46 Dan
Right. It's when you see maybe yes, a sequence can make me feel something. So a book if I flick through somebody else's sequence and I'm.
00:54:53 Dan
I'm getting that.
00:54:55 Dan
I don't want to call it a narrative because it sounds kind of cliche, but I I'm I'm I'm feeling the vibe that they put on the paper right that to me can give me a feeling, but one specific frame I don't know what was going through their head.
00:55:09 Paul
Can you can?
00:55:09 Paul
You put this loads of single images that are mind blowing, right? And.
00:55:12 Dan
Then Ohh apps are ******* lowly. There's.
00:55:14 Dan
There's stuff that I.
00:55:15 Dan
Look at as a.
00:55:16 Dan
Viewer and it makes me feel something, but that's a different conversation to what was the photographer feeling? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I know what I feel when I see something.
00:55:22 Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:55:26 Dan
And that's to me. What?
00:55:27 Dan
Not a good photo.
00:55:28 Dan
Is I. I very rarely see that in.
00:55:31 Dan
My own work but.
00:55:31 Paul
The good photo is is something that resonates to a lot of people.
00:55:33 Dan
Makes me.
00:55:34 Dan
No, I don't give a.
00:55:35 Dan
****. What a lot of people think.
00:55:37 Dan
It's what does it mean to me?
00:55:39 Dan
Right. I I see. I don't know. You walk around the Tate Modern, right? If we just take general art. What's Michelle duchamp's? Is it Michael douche?
00:55:50 Dan
I don't know the the urinal, right?
00:55:52 Paul
Yeah, OK. It's definitely not Michael. As Michelle, it's Michelle. It's Michelle.
00:55:55 Mimi
It's not mine, OK. We call it Michael for.
00:55:57 Dan
I I don't know. So I'm just my.
00:55:59 Dan
Dyslexia is this is Michael.
00:56:01 Mimi
For us boy Michael.
00:56:03 Dan
That makes people feel a certain way, right? And that's.
00:56:07 Dan
That's why it's good. You don't have to agree that you would have it in your house or.
00:56:11 Dan
That you would.
00:56:12 Dan
Buy it for your own private collection.
00:56:13 Paul
If you want to look.
00:56:15 Mimi
We earn you one.
00:56:16 Dan
But do you know what I'm saying?
00:56:17 Dan
Like I I think if you can elicit a response from someone, whether that's positive, negative.
00:56:25 Dan
Feelings of nostalgia.
00:56:25 Paul
That's all you're trying to.
00:56:26 Paul
Do maybe as an artist though, right?
00:56:29 Dan
That, that's, but that's what.
00:56:30 Dan
The good photo.
00:56:30 Dan
Does it makes you as if you feel something and what you feel and what the next person feels might be completely different, and that's OK. But that's what makes it good and.
00:56:40 Paul
This this is this.
00:56:41 Paul
This idea of good that we talk about those right and I know we've we've gone round in circles about good and also good photo.
00:56:47 Paul
And I I just think it's such a difficult thing you've you've must have read loads of books on what's a good photo, but it it it's.
00:56:54 Dan
It's, I think anyone agrees.
00:56:57 Paul
I think I could.
00:56:58 Dan
But weirdly, we can all look through stuff and we can all pick things out. And I think maybe 8090% of the.
00:57:04 Dan
Probably all agree on what good is, and yet we can't decide what.
00:57:08 Dan
You know, I mean that's that's also very strange when you if you lay out a lot of photos in front of people a.
00:57:13 Dan
Lot of people will pick the same stuff.
00:57:16 Paul
Do you think do you?
00:57:17 Paul
Think I don't know. Do you think, for instance, an experience listening me, me to a student, right? I don't know that they would pick the same stuff.
00:57:23 Dan
At that point, would they? OK, like if you're.
00:57:26 Dan
Talking people that maybe don't.
00:57:28 Dan
Have much experience then like what I would pick versus what? Maybe I'd I'd just go with your pick.
00:57:36
The big do do you know?
00:57:37 Dan
What I mean like?
00:57:38 Dan
I I think the the the lack of experience there probably does change things and maybe your eye isn't quite in whatever that means, but I I think if you take.
00:57:47 Dan
People that have shot a lot.
00:57:49 Dan
I I think a lot of the time they pick the same.
00:57:53 Dan
A lot of the time.
00:57:55 Dan
I don't know. There's is some taste there and.
00:57:56 Dan
I'm not saying.
00:57:57 Dan
It's 100%, but there's.
00:57:57 Paul
I don't know. I don't know that I don't.
00:57:59 Paul
Know that they would.
00:58:01 Mimi
Are these inclinations as well? What is it there that is your interest? Are we talking about which kind of photography? What?
00:58:08 Mimi
Don't know.
00:58:08 Paul
What's the purpose? What's what's the purpose of the?
00:58:08 Dan
If it's this week.
00:58:10 Paul
End of it, but if we.
00:58:11 Dan
All look through like an Alex Webb.
00:58:14 Dan
Photo book right now I guarantee at every turn of the page, all three of us will be like, yeah, that's ******* incredible. Was a good photo. I don't think there'll be many where one of us is like, I'm not so sure about this one.
00:58:26 Dan
Yeah. So there is something to it, like there is an agreement. It's the same as music, right? There's lots of music where you might not like.
00:58:35 Dan
Folk, or you might not like country or jazz or something, but you will hear it and you'll go well. I know it's good. I can't enjoy it, but I understand. I I I hear what's appealing to.
00:58:45 Paul
Yeah. OK. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:47 Dan
Yeah, you don't have to enjoy it, but I think most.
00:58:50 Dan
Can see something or there's something that.
00:58:52 Dan
Like this Jim Mottram behind you. It's it's an incredible frame.
00:58:58 Dan
Well, that's done. Wood, right? Done.
00:59:00 Paul
Wood very early downward, actually.
00:59:00 Dan
But yeah, that that's really brilliant. And then Trent Trent Trent, the ******* man.
00:59:09 Paul
I just think that.
00:59:11 Paul
Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? Photographs. I just. I just like looking at them just it's it's it's, it's almost like you just puts me into a world hypnotic state where you're daydreaming and you're you're in this kind of place, you know, where it just forces you to think.
00:59:18 Dan
To somehow satisfying isn't it?
00:59:29 Paul
What what I mean I I quite I kind of always like asking questions of them. What they're trying to tell me. What do they?
00:59:34 Paul
Mean do they mean anything at all?
00:59:38 Paul
That's the beauty I think, right? That's why you.
00:59:40 Dan
Do it. Yeah, absolutely.
00:59:43 Paul
And in fact, let's talk.
00:59:45 Dan
About the beauty and things and why we do them many what is 1 tiny thing that brings you joy?
00:59:48 Mimi
OK.
00:59:52 Mimi
Only Tony.
00:59:53 Paul
Do you want an example you can give you?
00:59:54 Paul
An example going down.
00:59:55 Dan
Oh my God you're about.
00:59:56 Dan
To Ohh hang on, I should have lined that up.
01:00:00 Paul
I like the smell of freshly cut grass.
01:00:04 Mimi
I see. I see. I see a wood. There is plenty of things. There is also a Italian guy called the Francesco Piccolo. Yeah. Who wrote a book about small pleasures in life, you know? So I'm.
01:00:17 Paul
OK, OK.
01:00:19 Mimi
We tuned in by this thing.
01:00:21 Dan
Has it been translated to English?
01:00:23 Mimi
No, no, no, no.
01:00:23 Mimi
No, he's he's a great screenwriter.
01:00:24 Dan
Oh my God.
01:00:26 Dan
I need. I need to learn Italian just so.
01:00:28 Mimi
Ohh, is this this book is from passes and easy lies you know like I like to win arguments with my wife.
01:00:28 Dan
I can read.
01:00:37 Mimi
This gives me massive pleasure. OK, I like when I come into bed and my sheets are cold and I can feel fresh and nice and cozy up.
01:00:52 Mimi
I like when I pee after I have hold it for a line and through the windings. I like the the the first part of the cigarette. I like when the sun and when's my face.
01:00:58
That's such a good one. Such a good one.
01:01:10 Mimi
I like the smell of my daughter. They're zillions of tiny and enormous things that give me daily pleasures. So it's it's.
01:01:20 Mimi
Uh, a big, big, I mean, we could say here ours and rewrite the books. The book that I I I mentioned just before.
01:01:32 Mimi
But yeah, I mean, there are a lot of things. One thing that I like is, you know.
01:01:39 Mimi
Or what maybe.
01:01:41 Mimi
You know the sound of the acid blood when I shoot.
01:01:44 Dan
Ohh yeah, that's that's true.
01:01:45 Mimi
Like and sits as well.
01:01:47 Paul
Why? You said I'm gonna bring up on something you said earlier. This, this, this dislike of digital. What's, what's and and and. OK, this is. This has been like this is another question that's come up a lot on this show. Is this difference between digital and film and the emotional difference that you will get maybe from a film photograph.
01:02:07 Paul
To a digital photograph. And do you think there's a?
01:02:09 Paul
Difference do you think?
01:02:10 Mimi
Not much. I mean, I I don't dislike digital at all. I think it's really.
01:02:11 Paul
Not much.
01:02:16 Mimi
And it works perfectly fine. I mean we could ever argued with digital versus analog back in 2005. Yeah, when digital now digital is great. So I don't have anymore an issue on the quality and feel and this and that. And I don't even believe that.
01:02:35 Mimi
Analog slows you down because if you were to be slowed down by a little tool, a little machine.
01:02:42 Mimi
You would be having these problems, you know, so I didn't get to slow down by analog.
01:02:43 Paul
It's so true, but it's true, right?
01:02:45 Paul
It's true. It's not gonna be.
01:02:49 Dan
I think my bank balance slows me down when I shoot that.
01:02:51 Mimi
You should. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But maybe is the the tool that you work with, I mean, our suburb is definitely slowing you down because of the typology of the two. But the 35 meal doesn't slow you down.
01:03:05 Mimi
Then, and even then, this thing is not really relevant. I like to work with film because of other number of factors which are personal which are maybe full time, but to me they still make sense and for instance I love working with film because of the.
01:03:25 Mimi
And the metal reality V2, because of being able to print in the dark.
01:03:30 Mimi
Come because of their ability to work with contact sheets. Because of how you archive your stuff and the potentially these things having also market value in the future. But then again this is you know you can have the value that you.
01:03:51 Mimi
Decide to emphasize upon.
01:03:53 Mimi
Is not really to me a matter of yes, digital, not digital. Yes, analog. Not. Yeah, I don't have an answer. And I quite frankly don't care.
01:04:03 Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:04:06 Mimi
You know, it's also a matter of money. Do I have the money to invest in a new digital asset? But no. Do I have the money to spend for my roles? Yes. Will I spend more in Wales than when would? I will spend if I would have invested all the lump sum of money into a new digital? I said. But.
01:04:25
Is your time right?
01:04:26 Mimi
I would have spent and I did spend a lot more.
01:04:29 Mimi
But do I have those sort of money in one go pool to buy a thing? No. So for me it it it it really comes down onto practical things. Then when you are in front of photographs and you look at an amazing photograph, enlargement print.
01:04:49 Mimi
That results from a negative and you find the beauty in that welcome is beautiful. I love it. I appreciate it. I value I I know how to recognize it. But to me it's not fundamental to me these these things are a bit like that, you know.
01:05:07 Mimi
I wish I could say, like you listen to an old vine, you and you have.
01:05:14 Mimi
A different feel than a digital MP3. Clean, possibly solderless output.
01:05:22 Paul
But you could.
01:05:23 Mimi
But then again, yeah, but then again, isn't it the song that ultimately is the song that you like to listen to or not?
01:05:23 Dan
Measure the difference between those.
01:05:31 Mimi
I mean, you can listen to Etta James or Billie Holiday, you know, all the scratchy vinyl, and you can find all the nostalgia and romanticism in it. And if this is value for you, then welcome. That's fantastic. I do. TuneIn to these perfectly, but it's not.
01:05:52 Mimi
The memento.
01:05:54 Dan
Yeah, it's not the most.
01:05:55 Mimi
Important thing, so equally and even less actually with photography will you will have that kind of thing. There are photographers that were, you know the tradition of expressionism in photography with Martin bargain, Lorenzo, Castore, Olivier.
01:06:15 Mimi
And Antoine bagata?
01:06:18 Mimi
And Michael Ackerman and the kind of logo vinyl kind of analog, feel too dirty softwood output now and it makes sense in that kind of work totally but and and and and you will be surprised and how they produce.
01:06:38 Mimi
Those outputs, you would think that there is all analog and is not. There are other means going on other processes that allow that output to have that kind of feeling and it's not always involving analog versus digital.
01:06:55 Mimi
So I've gotta go, Madam North.
01:06:57 Dan
It's just tools, right? You don't see, you don't see carpenters arguing over.
01:06:58 Mimi
Yeah, absolutely.
01:07:01
Whether or not.
01:07:02 Mimi
And the tools are important as long as they serve you. So obviously I would not want to screw a.
01:07:02 Dan
They're using.
01:07:04 Dan
Of course.
01:07:11 Mimi
Screw with a hammer.
01:07:13 Mimi
Yeah, I see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:14 Mimi
Then how relevant is to the whatever thing as long as the frame doesn't fall off, then I've done my job.
01:07:23 Mimi
But I will use a hammer for a name and I will use a screwdriver for.
01:07:27 Dan
A screw the right tool for.
01:07:28 Dan
The job get me.
01:07:33 Dan
Don't leave some shouts. Yeah, OK. OK. So.
01:07:36 Dan
Whenever we get somebody on, maybe we like to.
01:07:39 Dan
Have a little chat about some work.
01:07:41 Dan
We've been enjoying recent years and have to be photography. It could be music, it could be painting.
01:07:45 Dan
It could be writing. It could be any.
01:07:47 Dan
At all. Just something it doesn't have to be deep or profound to say.
01:07:50 Paul
You've been enjoying the creative actor way of being by the the Maestro, the Spirit, Rubin, and he's all over the social media, Rick Rubin these days.
01:07:58 Paul
Isn't he? Yeah.
01:07:59 Dan
He's been doing the.
01:07:59 Dan
Rounds. He's been on all the podcasts.
01:08:02 Dan
Right. He went on. Joe Rogan a few times.
01:08:04 Paul
And it's really.
01:08:07 Paul
Yeah. Yeah and.
01:08:07 Mimi
All right, you're.
01:08:08 Paul
It's really, really it's like short, short paragraphs and just it's just really good. It's just I'm only about halfway through and I'm just really, really enjoying it. It's like simple. It's not written in a complicated manner.
01:08:23 Paul
It's it's it.
01:08:24 Paul
Makes sense when you're reading like oh wow, that.
01:08:26 Paul
That makes sense, yeah.
01:08:28 Dan
Have you had a few epiphanies? Read it.
01:08:29 Paul
Yeah. And I just let me see if I can give you, shall I see it. See if I can pull something. It's not unusual for science to catch up to art eventually. Nor is it unusual for art to catch up to the spiritual.
01:08:41 Paul
Yeah. OK, I'll, I'll leave it.
01:08:44 Paul
At that. But it's good. It's really good, really.
01:08:46 Dan
Enjoy it. I'm gonna borrow that. I'm. I'm interested.
01:08:49 Paul
You like it?
01:08:50 Dan
Yeah, I do like Rick Rubin. You know more.
01:08:52 Paul
About Rick Rubin than I do.
01:08:53 Paul
To be honest with you.
01:08:53 Dan
He made his discography is ridiculously good. Yeah, yeah.
01:08:57 Dan
The the amount.
01:08:58 Dan
Of records that you have would probably put.
01:09:00 Dan
In your top 10.
01:09:02 Dan
That have him as a producer.
01:09:02 Paul
Interestingly, that I was watching a documentary this week on BBC and he was with.
01:09:09 Paul
What's British rapper woman poet. Poet. Kai. What's her?
01:09:15 Paul
Name. Damn it. Damn.
01:09:17 Mimi
Baby gay. No baby cause Italian.
01:09:19 Paul
She's thinking British. No, no, she's white. And she's, like, growing a bit long.
01:09:26 Mimi
Tempest. Tempest. Lay. Tempest.
01:09:27 Paul
Yeah, OK, 10% saw a documentary with where Rick Rubin was with Kate Tempest, and they were basically she went out to California or wherever. He has a studio and they basically they were in a room for.
01:09:41 Paul
Over 96 hours and he was he would really kept coming and saying no, that's not it. That's not it. That's not it. That's not it and.
01:09:47 Paul
Then eventually like they.
01:09:48 Paul
Have a moment where it all comes together and he walks and he goes.
01:09:52 Paul
That's it. That's it. And it's sort.
01:09:54 Paul
Of like it's just mind.
01:09:55 Paul
Blowing. You gotta watch it. It's.
01:09:56 Paul
Really good. It's he, he.
01:09:58 Dan
Produces like a director, so he's eliciting.
01:10:00 Dan
An emotion from the artist.
01:10:02 Paul
Yeah, it's amazing to watch that. It's like such a.
01:10:05 Paul
Real skill like it's.
01:10:06 Dan
It's he's so talent.
01:10:09 Paul
And he's like, you can tell that he's feel.
01:10:11 Paul
Like he's feeling it right. He's.
01:10:12 Paul
Feeling it it's it's. It's emotional for him. I just it's it's it's really good.
01:10:17 Dan
He's tapped all the way in, yeah.
01:10:20 Paul
So that's the other thing I'll do a second shout out, Kate, turn this documentary with uh with Ruben on BBC. It's good, OK.
01:10:27 Dan
OK, watch out as well.
01:10:29 Dan
There's an exhibition literally in my town.
01:10:31 Dan
At the moment.
01:10:33 Dan
Two photographers that have been working in the Medway area.
01:10:36 Paul
I've seen this work already. You know what it's about? It's documentary street, right? It's like portraits on the street.
01:10:40 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:42 Dan
Of Rochesters, Joshua Atkins and Daniel love day. It's ******* incredible. Like, it's so good.
01:10:49 Dan
It makes me wonder what the hell I'm actually doing, like working in Medway, seeing as.
01:10:52 Dan
These two are working.
01:10:53 Dan
On it like.
01:10:54 Dan
It's that good. It's seriously, seriously good. So if you get a chance to go to Rochester in the in the tourist Information Centre, there's this little glass room that's been kind of, I don't know.
01:11:07 Dan
Pulled off and there's just this little pop up exhibition in there. I say little. There's actually quite a lot of photos, but it's I spent a little while in there. I think I was in there for about.
01:11:16 Dan
Half an hour, 45.
01:11:17 Paul
This is another, this is another. There's like, there's actually a bit.
01:11:17 Dan
Minutes. It's really good.
01:11:20 Paul
Of a rich.
01:11:20 Paul
Vein of form coming out of Medway at.
01:11:22 Paul
The moment isn't it? There's there's cool.
01:11:22 Dan
In fact, I better tell you what the exhibition is called upon the.
01:11:25 Paul
High Street. OK, there's David and Mary's down.
01:11:27 Paul
Your way, there's the these two guys. There's you. There's.
01:11:27 Dan
Yeah, David O markdowns.
01:11:30 Paul
Little Dino, what's his name?
01:11:31 Dan
Yeah, Richard. Zara. There's Zara Carpenter.
01:11:34 Mimi
Yeah, I'm ready.
01:11:35 Dan
You're ready? Yeah, he's ready. Yeah, come on. OK.
01:11:39 Mimi
First of all, a piece of music coffee. Cold by go gout. Like Dermot.
01:11:44 Paul
OK, OK.
01:11:45 Mimi
The defiance one.
01:11:47 Mimi
The Defiant Ones documentary on Jimmy Iovine, Dr. Jan Eminem.
01:11:54 Mimi
Which is beautiful talking, talking of of producers and talking about film direction. These are great documentary.
01:11:55 Dan
I haven't seen this yet.
01:12:04 Mimi
Then there is the exhibition of the Sugimoto, the Hollywood Gallery. Amazing. Then there is.
01:12:13 Mimi
A book of a great photographer, artist, drug usage of of which I forgot the title. Yeah, is of of my overall.
01:12:28 Mimi
Something like that. It's a beautiful book on a personal experiences. Then Trent Park book, Massive Monument there. Then they leave the.
01:12:38 Dan
Yeah, that's a.
01:12:39 Dan
Great book. I missed that.
01:12:42 Mimi
Then there are a book that shorten yesterday. Roman well, Roman pads book.
01:12:48 Mimi
Is a great genius and and the book they just the the latest book, The Island with Andres Parkinson is beautiful.
01:12:56
Yes, Sir.
01:12:58 Mimi
In terms of whatever, let's space out a bit out of photography.
01:13:04 Mimi
Possibly, I guess, no. My favorite book you've seen.
01:13:07 Paul
This year as well, you know, like a photo book, that's.
01:13:08 Paul
Come across this year. There you go.
01:13:15 Mimi
Well, well.
01:13:18 Mimi
Martin Baldwin. I'm in love with, I mean.
01:13:22 Mimi
Is is.
01:13:24 Mimi
It's got some books that are mind blowing, but.
01:13:27 Mimi
I like there's.
01:13:28 Mimi
Too many to mention, too many to mention, too many that I bought, you know.
01:13:29 Paul
Too many, too many.
01:13:35 Mimi
I mean, if it's, it's incredible. Highlight the Shields. Been the workshop that I've run in in Panama with Martin Power. It was fantastic.
01:13:43 Paul
Yeah. Talk, talk a little, talk a little bit about your workshops and how that that cause you you do them out in Palmeira right in Sicily, right.
01:13:49 Mimi
Hello, my name? Palmeiro.
01:13:51 Paul
My Taliban.
01:13:55 Mimi
Yeah, I well in Palermo and in in my countryside. I want two different kind of workshop. One is in the countryside is called the CC photo master class and it's me joined by two special guest suitors which are rather on a company photographer, editor or designer. Publisher so that.
01:14:13 Mimi
Really, over the years this becomes truly like a.
01:14:17 Mimi
Master class OK.
01:14:18 Mimi
You joined once and you already have and and almost benefits because you have three different perspectives on your work and also you get to build your own small.
01:14:27 Mimi
Use and, but it's really when you join for several years, then you get the maximum of this experience because it's really.
01:14:39 Mimi
It's you can you. You can participate every year and have a totally different experience from the from the previous year. You know, as I said last year, we had the well last edition we had Edwin Clarke and Martina, basically Lupo, editor of Cinema.
01:14:59 Mimi
Then now we're gonna have the big company, Maria Marta, before we have the photographer and Lucy of LeMond. So there is a variety of people that come. And then the Palermo one is usually me.
01:15:20 Mimi
And the yes, another special guest studio always to offer something more to the participants. But there I have more of a hand in that when they stay with me practically, you know.
01:15:35 Mimi
The workshop calls for six the bigger boss, around six days a week. Yeah.
01:15:36 Dan
How long is the workshop?
01:15:40 Dan
OK, that's really cool.
01:15:41 Paul
Are you knackered? Afterwards you come away exhausted like.
01:15:43 Mimi
Totally and totally drained. In fact, commercially speaking would make sense to 1/2 back-to-back, but I know I couldn't do it because I have to recharge. Otherwise I, you know, I die. And also because I want to offer the best I I have and. And you cannot offer.
01:16:03 Mimi
Anything when you're joined so, but they're both very different and very beautiful, but less less full. Running Palermo with Martin Potter has just been magical. Yeah.
01:16:14 Mimi
A group of photographers that were mind blowing the engagement was beyond imagination.
01:16:22 Mimi
Martin Par is being the genius and great person that he is. He's been his usual super generous, super insightful, and just for the light to be with.
01:16:35 Mimi
So they've been really, really beautiful. And for me, yes, that has been one of the highlights which you actually you know.
01:16:42 Paul
OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:16:43 Dan
Mine was one of your mentors, wasn't he? So Martin was one of your mentors, wasn't?
01:16:47 Mimi
Yeah. Yeah, the series somehow. You know, it's very it's very powerful.
01:16:52 Mimi
Don't expect to have any any salt city coming from him.
01:16:59 Dan
But it's from a place of love, right? It's it's actually he wants you to be.
01:17:03 Dan
The best version of you.
01:17:06 Mimi
And and that is.
01:17:08 Mimi
What a mentor should be doing. Yeah. You know, I believe the, you know, for me the, the, the people that, me, me, the most in photography for me person that the beauty one is Helen Diller. She's a a sheer genius and a great friend of mine and her work.
01:17:28 Mimi
My blowing Martin Parr.
01:17:32 Mimi
Building company Kate Edwards from the garden. Ken magazine. Yeah, she's a such a wonderful person and loving character. These these are amazing. But then also so many other influential people that are both young.
01:17:52 Mimi
Upcoming editors or photographers and super established personalities that.
01:18:00 Mimi
You know, making my life way better than than what it would be without them, you know? So I think all of them would be, you know, honest friends, guides and mentors. It's it's been Martin David.
01:18:20 Mimi
The guide they they have meant a lot. What's really Saint Claire is a great friend of mine that has been really a fantastic guide for me.
01:18:31 Paul
Do you still do your photo meeting now is?
01:18:32 Mimi
It. Yeah, we will again this this spring. Yeah, but it's been really complicated after COVID because all the locations that were were.
01:18:35 Paul
This spring you can you.
01:18:44 Mimi
Well, first, the one that we add, right, that was gone. They you know everything became more expensive. Landlords put up the prices of the rent. Institutions need to break down big rooms and rent them as artists, studios, some others.
01:19:02 Mimi
I'm work coworking places with bankers going from a basket to another one with the laptop on one hand and a coffee on the other one. How many coffees do they ******* drink, you know?
01:19:18 Mimi
I don't know. Bring concerned. If you. I didn't know what the **** is? How can they do that? And in the meantime, I can hire a a cheap place for the for the meat and for me. For the meat is all about articulating my socialist.
01:19:33 Mimi
View on offering the best.
01:19:37 Mimi
For the least amount of money possible. So I want the photographers to access the best reviewers and the best artists for talks and events.
01:19:51 Mimi
The very reasonable price I want to pay the most I can the reviews that come and the artists that come and talk for the meat.
01:20:02 Mimi
And this is not possible when the overheads become unmanageable.
01:20:08 Mimi
Yeah, yeah. I mean little on myself. I I never really earned money with for the meat myself. Very, very, very ridiculous little crazy amount of revenue for me.
01:20:23 Mimi
But that's not the point of photonic the point of photonic is to create a community. So I I might have identified a really good value, which might still be reasonable. We are partnering with with another institution, and this is something I cannot.
01:20:27 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
01:20:43 Mimi
Say at the moment.
01:20:45 Mimi
But we are working with this wonderful institution and we might bring back certainly this spring, so watch this space.
01:20:53 Dan
Say then where can people follow along and find out when this news hits the?
01:20:59 Mimi
Offering for the meat is the Instagram handle, but you know minimally it's the.
01:21:09 Paul
Hotbed of activity?
01:21:10 Mimi
Yeah, I mean you you can you can, you know the newsletter well, which we don't sell because we don't want to bother people. But you can sign up and then whenever the big news comes and we we of course you from people.
01:21:24 Mimi
But yeah, social media I think is the best, most media means to get the this kind of news.
01:21:36 Mimi
A lot of work, but you know.
01:21:38 Dan
It's worth it though, right?
01:21:40 Mimi
Well, I don't know if it's worth. It's about your.
01:21:42 Paul
I think it's a beautiful.
01:21:43 Dan
Thing bringing people together. Talk about this thing that they.
01:21:44 Mimi
This is for share this for share of.
01:21:46 Dan
Love. I think it's it's.
01:21:47 Mimi
This is really satisfying and you know the things that came up from photo from photo meet. They are incredibly beautiful, really beautiful people that got together, books being done exhibition.
01:21:59 Mimi
Even then, photographers being commissioned and found, you know, glorious careers in both editorial and commercial photography. So it's been really beneficial for the community as a whole. And you know, from several different perspectives, it's really satisfying.
01:22:20 Mimi
But I work too much, yeah.
01:22:23
Right here.
01:22:24 Dan
I know you're.
01:22:24 Mimi
Yeah, yeah, you know.
01:22:25 Dan
A busy man. You look like you're a.
01:22:26 Paul
Busy man, yes.
01:22:27 Mimi
Yeah. And you know.
01:22:31 Mimi
But I I like this book, this next book.
01:22:31 Paul
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
01:22:35 Mimi
This is really beautiful.
01:22:37 Mimi
It's a book by Paul Banks and it's a series of profile pictures close up while doctors up but close in.
01:22:47 Mimi
Profile looking on the towards the left towards the gut of the book and they all shared this very cinematographic kind of reddish warm light. They must be in the bath or something.
01:23:00
I think.
01:23:02 Mimi
The cars are the red traffic light, so they could be the drivers and he could have been the passenger. You should call this taxi. Beautiful, beautiful little book by Paul highlight of the year.
01:23:18 Dan
Thank you.
01:23:19 Dan
Thank you so much.
01:23:20 Mimi
They are really.
01:23:20 Dan
Ma'am, you should really appreciate you coming on. You can keep up to date with me on social media. We'll link that in the show notes. You can keep up to date with what we're doing on social media at Idle Hanson.
01:23:21 Paul
Pretty to come in man, I know.
01:23:31 Dan
80 sign up to the newsletter for the latest on.
01:23:35 Dan
We're doing a.
01:23:36 Dan
A meet up like a little critique. It won't.
01:23:39 Dan
Just be photographers cause.
01:23:40 Dan
We're all about all art.
01:23:42 Dan
All the idle hands society. So we've got loads of painters.
01:23:45 Dan
That we've had on, we've got.
01:23:47 Paul
The musician for collection. Selecting designers. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy directors. Yeah, I think that that's one of the things that's been really interesting about doing this right.
01:23:47 Dan
Artists, musicians, directors.
01:23:56 Paul
The the talking to other artists who have different art perspectives is that it we will kind of push in towards the.
01:24:06 Paul
Same place fundamentally.
01:24:06 Dan
Yeah, we've all got a lot.
01:24:07 Dan
To learn from each other.
01:24:08 Paul
Yeah, there's something amazing about that cross pollination I like.
01:24:11 Dan
It it's cool.
01:24:13 Dan
Yeah, it's been amazing. We're gearing up for the end of the year now.
01:24:17 Paul
Yeah, Christmas socks on.
01:24:19 Dan
Christmas socks on. I should have my Christmas jumper. Today I'm gonna wear it tomorrow. Tomorrow to universal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tanya's been making her Christmas playlist, and that's what's been pumping around the house. So I'm truly interested clear now.
01:24:23 Paul
Witnessing anyway, Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey. Well.
01:24:28 Mimi
Is the time.
01:24:33 Paul
I hate Christmas. I thought. Chris, I.
01:24:35 Paul
Hate Christmas music.
01:24:36 Dan
I went to the Christmas market yesterday.
01:24:40 Mimi
Well, a second I used to stop you there.
01:24:44 Mimi
Come on, come on.
01:24:45 Mimi
Not be just sitting there and.
01:24:47 Paul
What was Christmas?
01:24:48 Mimi
From there, Christmas and that is not a sheet.
01:24:53 Mimi
Song is beautiful.
01:24:54 Paul
Fairy tale of New York Poe, what's?
01:24:55 Paul
His name? Shame garage, just.
01:24:56 Paul
Died, right? Yeah.
01:24:56 Mimi
See a song snowman, that one.
01:25:00 Mimi
They are too big.
01:25:03 Dan
What do you mean which one?
01:25:07 Paul
Ohh, there's a great there's a great.
01:25:09 Paul
Italian song about.
01:25:10 Paul
The donkey. You know the donkey. One more place to create. It's called Dominic the donkey. You.
01:25:15 Mimi
Don't know that. No. Oh.
01:25:16 Paul
My God. Yeah, yeah, I'll play it for you.
01:25:16 Dan
And that's christmassy.
01:25:19 Mimi
Before you leave and you back as Italian as Domino's Pizza? Excuse me.
01:25:22 Paul
No, no, no, no.
01:25:25 Dan
It might be, it might be. It's definitely.
01:25:28 Paul
Italian guy singing the donkey like that goes.
01:25:29 Mimi
OK, I believe you.
01:25:34 Paul
Well enough.
01:25:35 Dan
OK, right. Well, let's end it.
01:25:36 Dan
On that note, yeah that.
01:25:37 Dan
Sounds like the perfect place to wrap.
01:25:39 Dan
Thank you very much. We'll catch you.
01:25:41 Dan
In a couple of weeks. Cheers.
