050: 2023 in review
Dan and Paul round up 2023’s highlights in their end-of-year review.
Reach out to us @idlehandssociety. Your hosts today are @dan_s_higginson and @paulbenceuk on Instagram. You can support the Podcast by contributing to The Idle Hands Tip Jar.
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Transcript
Transcribed poorly by AI
00:00:04 Dan
Hi, welcome to the Idle Hands Society podcast. I'm Dan Higginson and I'm Paul. Ben, I think that's the first time you've ever introduced yourself by name, isn't it? Maybe that's.
00:00:12 Dan
What we should do from now on? Maybe.
00:00:14 Dan
Like we've been.
00:00:14 Dan
Awkwardly doing this for 50 ******* episodes and now we've finally worked out that you could just say your own name.
00:00:20 Dan
And it's that's weird. Hi, I'm Paul beds.
00:00:23 Paul Bence
I'm Paul Ben.
00:00:27 Dan
So we're fresh off the back of recording a really awesome chat with Millie Malika, and we're just doing a second one in the same day, and we're gonna talk to you about the year review. We're basically at the end, right? This is when we might squeeze in a couple more recordings, but I don't think we're we're not going to be publishing anything else. We're squeezing now, right?
00:00:48 Paul Bence
This is.
00:00:48 Dan
The final this is the final one for.
00:00:50 Dan
The year this will be the last.
00:00:52 Paul Bence
One that'll go out for the year. Ever.
00:00:54 Paul Bence
Ever. There's no 2023 in the.
00:00:54 Dan
It's here recording that day.
00:00:58 Paul Bence
And because, yeah, it's been a weird year. It's been really, it's been dark here in some ways, isn't it? Like this Ukraine and Gaza, you know. OK, yes.
00:01:07 Paul Bence
That sided thing, yeah.
00:01:10 Paul Bence
The world seems a lot more fragile and.
00:01:15 Dan
Yeah. Safaris. They're just. They're really down on things.
00:01:18 Speaker 3
You could get called up.
00:01:19 Paul Bence
Next year.
00:01:20 Dan
About mate, I mean, I know you're.
00:01:22 Dan
Kind of half joking, but.
00:01:23 Dan
It's not out of the realms of.
00:01:25 Paul Bence
Anyway, that's not good. We did this before.
00:01:26 Dan
Didn't and he.
00:01:27 Paul Bence
Was really depressed now. Oh, no, no, let's not it is. Listen, just just this is just horrible out there. I mean, we're really lucky. We feel we're privileged and we're in a bubble.
00:01:27 Dan
Yeah, less like miserable. Like on the road.
00:01:41 Paul Bence
And you feel guilty about being in your bubble.
00:01:45 Paul Bence
But I think.
00:01:46 Paul Bence
Let's let's try and take the positive things out of the last 12 months with the word summarise things that we've enjoyed. OK, I'm going to start you, Dan. Just just tell me something fun you've done this year. Something that you think oh.
00:02:01 Paul Bence
Know it doesn't have to be anything you've seen or read.
00:02:02 Dan
Or just something you've done. I'll tell you what, like if.
00:02:05 Dan
We really cast back and.
00:02:07 Dan
I know we mentioned this on the podcast before, but being a mature student, this is the first time I've been involved in an exhibition of any kind.
00:02:15 Dan
Don't get me.
00:02:15 Dan
Wrong. It was just a like a group exhibition with university, so it's not.
00:02:19 Dan
Like some crazy solo exhibition, but it's the first time I've ever had.
00:02:23 Paul Bence
Work displayed just, that's an achievement that is.
00:02:23 Dan
My own work to blade and like that.
00:02:26 Dan
That was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, it felt like a bit of a milestone. Yeah, he was. He wasn't bad. Neither was he. He was alright. You know the wonderful printing prowess of Paul Bentz will print most if anybody wants prints made £7.99 for.
00:02:42 Paul Bence
Classy print for for 1299121299 for that print available 12 hours a day, 24 hours a day.
00:02:54 Paul Bence
Shut up. No, no. OK.
00:02:55 Dan
What about you?
00:02:57 Dan
Well, is there is.
00:02:58 Paul Bence
There any book this year?
00:02:59 Speaker 3
Yeah, I suppose you come out. This year was last I.
00:03:00 Dan
Can't even remember. It feels like we've been talking about that since 2020.
00:03:04 Dan
Mate, I don't.
00:03:04 Dan
Know when? No. Yeah, I guess that was last year.
00:03:07 Dan
Right. Oh, sorry. This year, this year, this.
00:03:08 Paul Bence
This year printed this year's come out.
00:03:09 Dan
Did you print this year? Yeah, cause I think we did the editing sequence last Christmas. Yeah. So that. Yeah, that's not happening for me as.
00:03:13 Paul Bence
Last Christmas night.
00:03:17 Dan
Well, actually, just just me, you know.
00:03:19 Paul Bence
I think there's something about that isn't there.
00:03:23 Speaker 3
Just doing it just and it's kind of.
00:03:25 Speaker 3
An it's a really nice.
00:03:26 Paul Bence
Thing to have gotten the what's the word? Monkey off your back? Is that a?
00:03:30 Dan
Phrase monkey off your back.
00:03:32 Paul Bence
Something like that. There's like a phrase along with it.
00:03:36 Paul Bence
And it's kind of freeing in a way.
00:03:40 Paul Bence
I suppose it's it's. I think doing this as well, this podcast has been I think this has been the single I guess we talked about it, but I think it's.
00:03:51 Paul Bence
I spoke to.
00:03:53 Paul Bence
The man's going to get a mention again. Yeah, yeah. The man's going get a mention again, but he we.
00:03:55 Dan
Every episode mate.
00:03:59 Paul Bence
We talk about.
00:04:00 Dan
The third member of the Idahoan society, Tyler member.
00:04:01 Paul Bence
He had a silent member.
00:04:06 Paul Bence
What was I going to say? Well, we was talking about Roman and why was why? Why? What did I say before that I God, that's my brain. Today I lost my train of thought and what we were.
00:04:15 Dan
Talking about, I'm sorry, mate. It's been a long day.
00:04:19 Dan
You were talking about the podcast with Roman.
00:04:21 Speaker 3
Well, yeah, yeah. And and.
00:04:24 Paul Bence
I was saying that, you know, not like we me, and remind to talk about doing a podcast when we were in soda together and and.
00:04:31 Dan
Yeah, I remember you.
00:04:32 Paul Bence
Saying list of loads of stuff and we were going to do it and it never came to fruition for one reason or another. And and what's what's the most amazing thing is that.
00:04:45 Paul Bence
Just the knowledge you gain from speaking to other people and and it might not even be like a really chunky piece of information, it's just subtle.
00:04:55 Paul Bence
Pushes little subtle, pushes that that come from nowhere that you don't.
00:04:58 Paul Bence
Expect you know.
00:04:59 Paul Bence
Give you examples we spoke to recently.
00:05:02 Dan
Yeah, Ron Lewis.
00:05:03 Dan
You know.
00:05:03 Paul Bence
He talked about how magical South Wales is and I'm from South Wales and I understand I've always thought that after leaving and becoming a photographer, yeah.
00:05:13 Paul Bence
But how special the place is is a a place to photograph and almost feeling a jealousy, like when he was talking about like that, you know, and everything. Why can't do it? Why can't I do this? I can't. Why? There's just no reason why you shouldn't, you know, and make work there as well like and like that. It's like, got little things that come from that, that, that.
00:05:33 Speaker 3
Just you know, just.
00:05:35 Paul Bence
Makes you wonderful. ****. This dude is doing it. Why can't I? And I think there's things like the, the, the and the the thing. And the other thing from you, the other, the other better we. I think we both found really useful for future projects is how he reaches out to people and putting you know Facebook groups and and what do you do put signs up on walls and.
00:05:54 Dan
You really talk to him about that?
00:05:55
OK. But.
00:05:56 Dan
That is something that both you and I discussed.
00:05:59 Dan
A bunch before we had them on and you're right.
00:06:01 Paul Bence
Like these bits you think, God, you don't make so much sense to me. It's so easy and so logical and so straightforward.
00:06:07 Dan
You just ask.
00:06:08 Paul Bence
People. Yeah, you just do you sometimes.
00:06:09 Paul Bence
You you forget.
00:06:11 Paul Bence
The most simplest way is the easiest way, usually the 1:00 which gives you the most access and and the photographers talk about access a lot and how we access things and how we access things as photographers.
00:06:22 Dan
I think deep.
00:06:24 Paul Bence
I mean reword that.
00:06:27 Dan
I wonder.
00:06:29 Dan
Whether or not as photographers, we overthink the the projects that we're interested in instead of coming up with a subject matter and thinking ohh, let's make that happen. Like we we're we spend too long in the.
00:06:42 Dan
Planning stage? Yeah, I.
00:06:42 Paul Bence
Think we'll roll Roland as well. We spoke.
00:06:44 Paul Bence
To Roland and his.
00:06:45 Paul Bence
Project and how he.
00:06:46 Paul Bence
How that started and how that you know, from walking in the streets, seeing these people on the.
00:06:50 Paul Bence
And then then been invited into one of their homes and and how?
00:06:53 Paul Bence
That it it it's it's there's not.
00:06:57 Paul Bence
I think there's courage involved. I think there's a lot of courage involved in some ways to put yourself into positions where you might feel uncomfortable or awkward. Yeah, but actually I think once you put yourself into those uncomfortable positions, you do the best work comes out of it.
00:07:12 Dan
Yeah, there's definitely been a couple of points.
00:07:16 Dan
The I know I've been in situations where you kind of have to pinch yourself if I can't.
00:07:19 Dan
Believe I'm doing this. The thing you did with Jay.
00:07:22 Paul Bence
This year that was quite yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was.
00:07:25 Paul Bence
This year, that was another highlight. It just came out of nowhere, like, and I think those things like you just gotta like, I just think there's something about the career that you do that you basically shouldn't.
00:07:35 Paul Bence
Turn down anything.
00:07:36 Paul Bence
And I need to mean Commission for paid work, but I mean in terms of your personal journey and your, you know, I think let open every door, see where it.
00:07:45 Dan
Leads you and nothing exciting at home, right? You need to be out doing stuff meeting.
00:07:50 Paul Bence
People. Totally, totally. Yeah. And and I think we.
00:07:55 Paul Bence
We've met a lot of people over the last 50 episodes. Believe 50 odd episodes and.
00:08:02 Dan
I I this will be over 50 I think, yeah.
00:08:06 Speaker 3
I think you know it's it's it's like.
00:08:09 Speaker 3
We had to.
00:08:09 Paul Bence
Be like to meet a bit of a six month quiet period where you were really busy reading this college and and it's nice that I kind of like that.
00:08:18 Paul Bence
I don't know the word I was gonna say natural flow of it, that it isn't that we never. Well, there's neither really been either pressure from either us to to do this podcast. You know, it's kind of a. What's the word I'm looking for? It's like a.
00:08:28 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:34 Paul Bence
A hustle side hustle is in a way, but.
00:08:36 Dan
Like a side quest, a side quest by Zelda.
00:08:38 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:08:39 Paul Bence
Yeah. And and I think.
00:08:43 Paul Bence
Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm excited for next year in terms of where we take it and.
00:08:46 Paul Bence
How we can grow it and?
00:08:49 Paul Bence
Yeah, we could put.
00:08:50 Paul Bence
A lot of energy into it over the next 12 months and and see what we can make it. And I think there's there's, you know, I used to. I've talked about this to done. I used to shoot an event for a friend called Plug, which I need to hook you up with.
00:09:05 Paul Bence
That, that creative event, even seeing it 10 years ago, made me think I can do this within photography, that we should do this, and there might be other things that exist out there like Mimi's photo meet today where they, you know, they've got Martin Park and then then.
00:09:22 Dan
Just Sicily. And that looks incredible.
00:09:23 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah, for the future.
00:09:25 Dan
One day one day I would love that.
00:09:28 Dan
I wanna go do Mimi's one as well. Yeah, I'd love.
00:09:30 Paul Bence
To do Mimi.
00:09:31 Paul Bence
'S one I probably could go do, but I just.
00:09:33 Paul Bence
I'd I'd love to.
00:09:34 Paul Bence
Go and just.
00:09:34 Paul Bence
Do it to meet David.
00:09:35 Paul Bence
Campney really sorry. Maybe. And you? Of course. Maybe.
00:09:40 Paul Bence
You know.
00:09:40 Dan
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:41 Dan
We should get trying to get David on, that'd be.
00:09:43 Paul Bence
Good. I would love to, Mr.
00:09:45 Dan
Campany open invite.
00:09:46 Paul Bence
Mate, you. You've liked my work, David. Quite a lot. So I'm. I'm hoping that that you're you're you're you're susceptible and you're valuable hopefully.
00:09:56 Dan
All this worded, yes.
00:09:57 Dan
Yes, it never know it could happen. It could happen.
00:10:01 Paul Bence
Yeah. And that's the other thing. That's the other thing though. That's the other thing is actually 99% of people who have reached out.
00:10:02
I think.
00:10:07 Paul Bence
To have said yes.
00:10:09 Paul Bence
There's hardly been and then you get a couple of colleagues they won't even reply or respond. But on as a general rule of thumb.
00:10:16 Dan
I think we're just falling into those spam folders sometimes.
00:10:19 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe. But some people, you know.
00:10:24 Dan
It's daunting, though, isn't.
00:10:25 Dan
It I think when someone says, do you?
00:10:26 Dan
Wanna come on a podcast?
00:10:28 Dan
I know we're not out.
00:10:29 Dan
There by any great shakes.
00:10:31 Dan
We're not ******* Joe Rogan, you know? I doubt.
00:10:33 Dan
People are really that nervous.
00:10:34 Dan
But I think to some extent, people think it might be a bit more stuffy or.
00:10:39 Paul Bence
Yeah. And I I think.
00:10:43 Paul Bence
It's it's, it's. Yeah. Yeah. You. Wait, I I just. I just think it's a marvellous view and I I think for all professionals actually if you've.
00:10:50 Paul Bence
Got the gut there.
00:10:52 Paul Bence
I would say to everybody like.
00:10:54 Speaker 3
You don't have to do.
00:10:55 Paul Bence
A podcast, but I would.
00:10:56 Paul Bence
My my advice would be from this year from doing the podcast over 2 years is.
00:11:02 Paul Bence
Everybody, if you've got a question to ask somebody, most people, 99% of people.
00:11:08 Paul Bence
Will bother to take the time and respond and how? Like the other thing we talk about is how connected the photography community is and it doesn't feel like that from the outside, right? And from the inside looking the other way, it feels really connected. But those connections don't really. What's the word I'm looking for are visible via social media and networks.
00:11:29 Paul Bence
Of the digital kind, you know they exist and people may be friends, but yeah, they don't feel as tiny. They don't feel as real. You're right and then.
00:11:32 Dan
Don't feel as tangible.
00:11:37 Paul Bence
That's the other thing is how, how how connected it is, how really how?
00:11:41 Paul Bence
Really connected it is underneath underneath the the social media veneer. Almost. Yeah. And how small it is. How how genuinely caring and warm everybody is. Yeah. And. And you don't get that from social media either.
00:11:57 Dan
No, it's it feels.
00:11:57 Dan
Like cold and disconnected, doesn't it? But like, if you think about it, everybody we've spoken to, nobody's come across as being a bit like iffy.
00:12:05 Paul Bence
No, I haven't. I haven't had a conversation where I thought to myself, you're a ********.
00:12:09 Dan
And I thought by.
00:12:10 Dan
Now, that might have happened. Yeah, I mean.
00:12:12 Dan
The conversations with me maybe.
00:12:14 Paul Bence
But maybe people are. I think you're also a bit self aware in in that situation where you don't want to come across as a ********, so there's a bit of that as well, right? There's a bit you're we're only seeing a.
00:12:24 Paul Bence
Version of somebody not.
00:12:27 Paul Bence
Older version, like whether home with the wife in their screaming at her because she hasn't *******.
00:12:31 Speaker 4
Empty the dishwasher with 1000 times.
00:12:39 Dan
Yeah, I don't know.
00:12:40 Dan
It's been that's probably been my one regret this year. You know enough? Yeah.
00:12:44 Paul Bence
Empty the dishwasher.
00:12:48 Dan
Yeah, but I think.
00:12:49 Paul Bence
I think we, we've.
00:12:51
Only put out.
00:12:53 Dan
How many episodes we put out this year, 767.
00:12:56 Paul Bence
Eight. Yeah, maybe that. Yeah, we've.
00:12:59 Dan
Been a bit too quiet and tan. Tanya's been really pushing me the whole year. Like when we've not been doing stuff. She's been like, you need to make time for this. And I just haven't been able to get around to it. Between being a full time student.
00:13:01 Speaker 3
We shot.
00:13:14 Dan
All the weddings and stuff, I'm sure it's.
00:13:16 Dan
Just it's been really.
00:13:17 Dan
Really difficult to find time for this but.
00:13:20 Dan
I that is one regret.
00:13:21 Dan
That I do have is.
00:13:22 Dan
That we haven't necessarily found time to do it.
00:13:28 Paul Bence
I don't know who Crystal is, but she just said hi. I'm going to say hi back. Oh, she's not like a **** star or something. She is.
00:13:35 Paul Bence
She she's not even real crystal isn't real, is she?
00:13:39 Paul Bence
That's that's like not.
00:13:40 Dan
A real profile. What is happening right now?
00:13:42 Paul Bence
No, I don't know. It's Instagram.
00:13:44 Paul Bence
Yeah, I thought somebody. Hi. Hi, crystal. You coming on?
00:13:47 Dan
No. If it wasn't apparent from the off, usually we don't record these in person and this is this is a new thing we're doing to try and keep ourselves committed. I think we mentioned it a.
00:13:54 Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:57 Dan
Yeah, yeah. We're gonna have a a day, a month where we catch up in.
00:14:01 Dan
Real life, yeah.
00:14:03 Dan
We record, we we try and get guests in and.
00:14:06 Paul Bence
Yeah, we gotta set up now that we can actually travel to people's homes. Yeah. Studios. We're going.
00:14:11 Dan
To hopefully, right. So who's on our list of coming up? So you've probably heard many.
00:14:16 Dan
League right now.
00:14:17 Paul Bence
Yeah, we've got room. Come in. We've got Rue Lewis on the way. Yeah. Kate burden.
00:14:21 Paul Bence
We've got.
00:14:23 Dan
Cape Verdean incredible.
00:14:25 Paul Bence
Yeah, we've got lovely Kate. Lovely Cape burden that.
00:14:28 Dan
OK, Madam.
00:14:29 Paul Bence
We had a little bit.
00:14:29 Paul Bence
Of technical difficulty, but hopefully we can massage something out of it, can't we?
00:14:33 Dan
Yeah, I've. I've listened back through that audio, I think.
00:14:37 Dan
There's there's a you have to bear with us on this one. But like, it's it's worth it. It's worth. It's worth putting up with a bit of choppy audio here and there because.
00:14:45 Paul Bence
Yeah, she's amazing. Trevor, maybe.
00:14:48 Dan
Trevor Trevor Wise Cup has.
00:14:53 Dan
We've we've got a, we've got a tentative.
00:14:56 Paul Bence
To attack this.
00:14:56 Dan
A tentative acceptance, yeah.
00:14:59 Paul Bence
Alice Tomlinson. Hopefully we'll get more man's linked us in with Alice, so that is really cool. So hopefully we'll get her in the.
00:15:05 Paul Bence
New Year with.
00:15:06 Paul Bence
A bit of luck.
00:15:07 Paul Bence
Yeah. We'd like David Campany, David, David. David. Yeah, David, you're on our wish list.
00:15:13 Speaker 3
Is there anything else? Yeah, we.
00:15:14 Dan
Have one recorded right. There's another one recorded.
00:15:16 Paul Bence
You got Ryan MacDonald coming up on Wednesday.
00:15:18 Dan
Yeah, Ryan McDonald. Oh, yeah. OK, so it's definitely.
00:15:21 Dan
Not the last one, we're.
00:15:21 Dan
Recording this year, but there there's a lot in the bank at the minute and there's one.
00:15:25 Dan
Other person.
00:15:27 Dan
Ohh, we had to reschedule.
00:15:30 Paul Bence
Oh yeah. Colour. Name of colour.
00:15:32 Paul Bence
Carla, yes.
00:15:35 Dan
So Cara is going to.
00:15:36 Dan
Be coming up at someplace soon.
00:15:37 Paul Bence
And I've also reached out to the guy who just did the Tish Murtha documentary, Paul Singh, the director on that. OK, cool. And I've reached out to offline journal, which is a magazine that focuses on Welsh photos.
00:15:52 Dan
Yes, I think you and Ruth are talking about.
00:15:54 Paul Bence
Yes, who dropped us that link, but I knew about it anyway. But I reached out to Brian on the weekend as well. OK, see. See, it's when 2024 is going to be. Uh, yeah, Paul.
00:16:03 Speaker 4
That's quite.
00:16:06 Paul Bence
Gonna do an event. We're gonna meet up. We're gonna get our newsletter flow in with useful, helpful links from ship.
00:16:12 Dan
I wish there was another name because newsletter makes it sound like we're gonna be spamming people so.
00:16:16 Dan
This is going to be 1 e-mail a.
00:16:17 Dan
Month no more. Yeah, only one.
00:16:20 Dan
And it's going.
00:16:20 Dan
Sum up.
00:16:22 Dan
Some of the awesome stuff that you found.
00:16:23 Paul Bence
Right. Yet we both found one, and if you find anything you think is really cool, that should be in the.
00:16:27 Paul Bence
Newsletter please reach out.
00:16:28 Paul Bence
To us and tell us. Yeah, Paul. Hey.
00:16:30 Paul Bence
Dan, we found this.
00:16:31 Paul Bence
It's cool. I like. I like. Yeah. So it's just going to be a list, a list, a list and some, you know, maybe occasionally it'll be a little bit of Nuggets about stuff we can got coming.
00:16:41 Paul Bence
Up in the future.
00:16:44 Paul Bence
Stuff that we find on the Internet that we think is interesting could be a long read could be piece of music, could be a video, you know.
00:16:52 Dan
Wednesday up January the 20th, 14th January the 13th.
00:16:56 Dan
Yeah. So we're gonna do a meet up. It's gonna be very, very limited numbers, so make sure you get on the newsletter. Yeah, that definitely isn't a newsletter.
00:17:03 Paul Bence
No more than no. I think 6:00 will be.
00:17:05 Dan
Yeah, it's going to be like.
00:17:07 Paul Bence
Let's be upfront, let's just say 6 people.
00:17:08 Dan
Yeah. I mean, we're literally gonna meet in a cafe, hopefully. So the numbers are gonna be super limited. But here's our vision, right? Yeah. So we're gonna, if you can meet you technically, we could. Couldn't we cause it makes it a bit easier? We could in the kitchen. We could get 6.
00:17:23 Paul Bence
Or eight of us around the island.
00:17:25 Dan
We could potentially, yeah, maybe.
00:17:27 Dan
Let's see here. So where the venue is?
00:17:30 Dan
To be confirmed.
00:17:31 Dan
But what isn't to be confirmed is.
00:17:34 Dan
The what's going to happen? So we're basically going to.
00:17:36 Dan
Meet up. We're going.
00:17:37 Speaker 4
To have a.
00:17:37 Dan
Coffee. A croissant croissant.
00:17:40 Dan
And then we're going to hopefully you guys are going to bring some physical work. No, like we want to get away from screens, we want to meet in real life with real stuff. So prints paintings.
00:17:53 Dan
Whatever it is, I guess if you're a musician, you can bring something on a on a phone. That's cool. But, but it would be really nice to actually see some some physics, some physical works.
00:18:03 Speaker 3
What? What, what?
00:18:03 Speaker 3
What's your reasons behind this Dan so?
00:18:06 Dan
We like the idea of.
00:18:09 Dan
Being able to all of us come together and.
00:18:14 Dan
As a bit more of a community, so a bit of a a critique. You know it's going to be very gentle and and and nice. It's no ********.
00:18:23 Dan
But try and help each other.
00:18:25 Dan
Out because I think it's so easy to get stuck in a little silos.
00:18:28 Paul Bence
Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. The silo, the silo is doom. Yeah, I I think, yeah. Photography by its nature is a very solitary pursuit, making the work usually is a solitary pursuit. Editing the work. Not always, but initially is a solitary.
00:18:44 Paul Bence
You spend a lot of time with the computer and I think there's something in IRL in real life. You know, there's something about that, that that we we've, we've kind of what, two years past the pandemic really end ending and.
00:18:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:00 Dan
We don't feel any closer together with.
00:19:02 Dan
That no and.
00:19:02 Speaker 3
And is something we just we're talking about.
00:19:04 Paul Bence
Of this veneer of social media being this this.
00:19:07 Paul Bence
Idea of you don't really understand the connections that fit underneath that and the how how close a community photography really is. Really, everybody knows everybody you know they it's just you don't really understand that if you're just using it from a digital perspective and and and you know like me and Dan, the most awkward two people you've ever met in your life.
00:19:28 Paul Bence
Right.
00:19:28 Paul Bence
And 111 the marvellous things. I think that's come out.
00:19:34 Paul Bence
Of the podcast is the.
00:19:36 Paul Bence
Like even 2 awkward dudes, we're pretty much like we can get on with anybody, really. So bring your work, bring some prints, maybe come to Paul's house for a cup of tea and hob nob. And yeah, just show us some.
00:19:48 Speaker 3
Of the nice.
00:19:48 Dan
Just one.
00:19:49 Speaker 4
Thing. Yeah, and I I.
00:19:50 Speaker 4
Think it's important? I do think it's important and.
00:19:53 Speaker 4
I'm. I'm not, I'm.
00:19:54 Paul Bence
You know, like we we we.
00:19:55 Paul Bence
Class ourselves as.
00:19:58 Paul Bence
David Companies, you know we're not. We're not David with up and far knowledge, but.
00:20:01 Paul Bence
We do, you know, peer to.
00:20:03 Dan
Peer it's peer-to-peer this.
00:20:04 Dan
Isn't this isn't? Yeah, totally I.
00:20:06 Speaker 4
I show you you show.
00:20:07 Paul Bence
Me and we talk about it and and we talk about can we make it better? Can we make you should we leave it in? Should we leave it out? You like this?
00:20:14 Speaker 3
Photo you not like that.
00:20:15 Speaker 3
Photo not just just general would be cool.
00:20:17 Dan
Have some people put along that aren't necessarily photographers as well.
00:20:20 Paul Bence
Yeah, totally. Totally. I'm sorry.
00:20:22 Dan
So I'd love to see some artists.
00:20:24 Paul Bence
Yes, yes, some painters and decorators.
00:20:27 Paul Bence
David, can I do my wall while?
00:20:29 Paul Bence
You're at it.
00:20:30 Dan
Yeah. David O'Mara, yeah, yeah.
00:20:33 Dan
Yeah, yeah, I think we want to, we.
00:20:37 Dan
Want to start doing?
00:20:37 Dan
A little bit more of this.
00:20:39 Dan
Kind of thing in real life in real life.
00:20:43 Dan
Whether it be.
00:20:43 Paul Bence
And the plan eventually is to make that event a little bit bigger and roll it. Now we start very small. The idea is to start very tiny, yes.
00:20:51 Paul Bence
To slowly.
00:20:54 Paul Bence
Increased momentum. As for you, we're hopefully going to make a few videos this year. We don't know yet, but you know, bear with us on that, you know, editing a.
00:21:01 Dan
Video you know, just type. That scares the absolute **** out of.
00:21:03 Paul Bence
OK.
00:21:05 Dan
Me. Well, make that. Yeah, that video button I.
00:21:05 Paul Bence
You do this.
00:21:07 Dan
Don't know what?
00:21:07 Dan
It is the second.
00:21:09 Dan
That the picture starts moving in.
00:21:11 Dan
There I I don't know it feels.
00:21:14 Dan
I I don't. I don't know. I don't know.
00:21:15 Dan
How to put things?
00:21:16 Dan
Together, properly nasty.
00:21:18 Paul Bence
The editing is pretty straightforward, Danielle, it's it's it's it's literally imagine a line sequential. It's just choosing the shots in order that work together.
00:21:28 Dan
I know, but for some bizarre reason that like I know it's adjacent to the thing that.
00:21:32 Dan
I do for a living.
00:21:34 Dan
It still feels.
00:21:35 Dan
A bit I'm.
00:21:36 Dan
Gonna try and get some some some jobs this year video as well.
00:21:39 Paul Bence
Yeah, video video writing.
00:21:43 Paul Bence
Podcast events. That's our bag for the next 12 months, right? That's kind of.
00:21:47 Dan
Yeah, I think by sorry, right, let's, shall we? Let's put it out.
00:21:50 Dan
There in the ether, let's after.
00:21:51 Dan
Mate, yeah, and make manifest manifesting.
00:21:52 Paul Bence
You guys.
00:21:54 Dan
Yeah, you guys can hold us accountable. So by the end of 2024.
00:21:59 Dan
There will have been.
00:22:00 Dan
Well, we're doing the first one in January, so we're getting off.
00:22:02 Dan
To a flying start so.
00:22:03 Paul Bence
Yeah, we're on the road.
00:22:04 Dan
In real life, meet up right?
00:22:07 Dan
What else do we want to do in?
00:22:07 Dan
2024 I want to do I want to do a.
00:22:12 Dan
Like a A, like a newspaper.
00:22:14 Dan
Or like the magazine.
00:22:15 Paul Bence
Yeah, collaborative project.
00:22:16 Paul Bence
Of some kind gigazine at the end of it.
00:22:17 Dan
Yeah. Yeah. How many episodes are we going about?
00:22:24 Paul Bence
So if we're in 15 and that's two years of work really right?
00:22:29 Dan
Yeah, but this year's been a bit of a rip off man. Like we've not done enough.
00:22:32 Paul Bence
OK, let's try.
00:22:33 Paul Bence
And bike waggon, 25, is a number.
00:22:34 Dan
25 yeah, OK. So we're gonna do another 25.
00:22:38 Dan
Episodes, yeah.
00:22:39 Dan
So that's that's basically what every.
00:22:41 Dan
Couple of weeks and it.
00:22:41 Paul Bence
Yeah, one every couple of weeks with 12.
00:22:43 Paul Bence
Months in a year? Yeah. OK.
00:22:45 Dan
I think that's doable right back in the day.
00:22:47 Dan
We were doing.
00:22:47 Paul Bence
One a week. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So 2.
00:22:49 Dan
I don't know how I suppose.
00:22:50 Dan
It was lockdown, right? Yeah. You couldn't do anything else.
00:22:54 Dan
It was it.
00:22:55 Dan
Please go anywhere. Everybody was inside so.
00:22:56 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah, I wasn't.
00:22:59 Paul Bence
It was easy to go out with anybody. Yeah, I'm here. Please. I want.
00:23:01 Speaker 4
To talk to you, please. Yeah, yeah.
00:23:02 Dan
Yeah, it's crazy how different my life is.
00:23:04 Paul Bence
Now, yeah, it's mad. How?
00:23:06 Dan
I was working in an office.
00:23:08 Paul Bence
Yes, bonkers, isn't it?
00:23:09 Dan
I was still doing pro shoots.
00:23:11 Dan
But like that was my part time thing.
00:23:16 Dan
Yeah. So.
00:23:18 Dan
So we're going to do 20.
00:23:19 Dan
Five episodes, 25.
00:23:20 Paul Bence
Episodes couple of videos, let's say 3.
00:23:22 Dan
Or 4, three or four videos 20.
00:23:24 Dan
Four, it doesn't feel.
00:23:25 Dan
One every consistency that one.
00:23:27 Paul Bence
It not quarter one and quarter and they're gonna be longer form. They're more interesting than talking specifics, but dives into people's careers like imagine.
00:23:32 Dan
OK, OK, alright, now let's.
00:23:34 Dan
Deep. Deeper.
00:23:38 Paul Bence
Those behind me, for instance, just, you know, and we we go talk about his work. We go see making some work.
00:23:45 Paul Bence
We we really go heavy linking to stuff that he's done, talk about his philosophy of me, you know, all of it. And I just think that almost a profile of an artist in in.
00:23:55 Paul Bence
A way that portrait.
00:23:57 Dan
Like a like.
00:23:57 Paul Bence
A. A video portrait? Yeah.
00:23:59 Dan
What? What? How long did you just say?
00:24:00 Dan
You had a time. What?
00:24:02 Dan
What did? Did you have a time of how long?
00:24:03 Dan
This wants to.
00:24:04 Dan
Be when you say long form. Are you talking like half an hour each?
00:24:07 Paul Bence
Yeah, 30, I don't know. 30 minutes. Thirty minutes, I think is long enough. You get bored after about 30. Most people. The kids are gay. You're bored after 12 seconds.
00:24:07 Dan
For like an hour or an.
00:24:08 Dan
Hour and a half, you.
00:24:09 Dan
Six hours.
00:24:15 Dan
OK, so if it's a.
00:24:17 Dan
So you basically want it to be a 30 minute portrait of yeah, of somebody.
00:24:21 Paul Bence
You know, but I don't want to.
00:24:22 Paul Bence
Be one of those videos where you just like if you're a photographer.
00:24:26 Dan
Then write lots of big roll of somebody making a coffee or some ********.
00:24:29 Speaker 3
Yeah. No, it's gotta we got, it's got the, the.
00:24:32 Paul Bence
I I you know, Bobby Fingers is the is where we're holding out to. That's the level.
00:24:37 Dan
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
00:24:38 Dan
Like so, we're gonna go to Turkey. Just going to get some hair transplanted from us into euros into it. OK. Don't keep your microphone. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I think that would be cool.
00:24:43 Paul Bence
Into my ***.
00:24:55 Dan
I like the idea.
00:24:55 Dan
Of doing that.
00:24:57 Dan
It it does, it does frighten.
00:24:59 Dan
Me a little bit, I've gotta say, but.
00:25:01 Dan
I'm up for it. I'm up.
00:25:02 Paul Bence
For the challenge, get the website we built by Tom. Are we or you or you or Tom you and Tom?
00:25:09 Dan
So there's going to be a rebrand, rebrand, rebrand, rebrand. Yeah, 2024 rebrand.
00:25:15 Paul Bence
I I think what we're going to try and.
00:25:17 Paul Bence
Do next year and and I'll stand corrected, but is trying to pull all the streams into.
00:25:24 Dan
One big river we're going to cross beams kissing in the same new line. We're crossing. Crossing beams are sinking Ghostbusters, but you could go.
00:25:36 Paul Bence
Ghostbusters. Yeah. Don't.
00:25:37 Dan
Yeah. You know when they if.
00:25:38 Dan
They're likes.
00:25:39 Dan
Cross the streams streams streams where we're crossing crossing streams.
00:25:45 Paul Bence
I love Ghostbusters. Still remember the movie?
00:25:48 Dan
Do you know what that was? One of the?
00:25:49 Dan
Ones when I was a kid, the.
00:25:52 Speaker 3
OK, ma'am.
00:25:52 Dan
I I wanted to be a ghostbuster. Yeah, me.
00:25:54 Dan
Too. When I grew up, I wanted to be a.
00:25:56 Paul Bence
Yeah, agreed. They were so ******* cool, right? Yes, he is a great film.
00:26:02 Dan
Sorry, you've just you've.
00:26:02
So why?
00:26:03 Dan
Just handed me my links. Come in. Luke. Luke Saxon. They're very keen on this. So idle hands me up.
00:26:09 Speaker 3
What's the date of the?
00:26:10 Dan
Meet up there. It's the 13th of January.
00:26:13 Paul Bence
And what time would be?
00:26:14 Speaker 3
There any dip 10?
00:26:15 Dan
AM. Yeah, till 12:00 AM.
00:26:17 Paul Bence
OK. OK. Maybe we'll go and get.
00:26:19 Dan
A chicken? Nando's or something afterwards?
00:26:21 Paul Bence
Thanos or gregs?
00:26:24 Dan
Well, Greg. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's open.
00:26:26 Speaker 4
Maybe we'll have Ingram.
00:26:30 Dan
Well, Lukes northern, so I think that's.
00:26:32 Paul Bence
What's this answer you want?
00:26:33 Dan
It does. It does. Everybody loves a Grey's mate. Everybody loves a Greggs. How do I get back to the thing on your? On your iPad? There we go. There we go.
00:26:41 Paul Bence
I guess.
00:26:43 Paul Bence
OK, tell me I.
00:26:44 Paul Bence
Am stressful photo books this year then.
00:26:46 Dan
Top top photo books.
00:26:50 Paul Bence
There's been so many good runners this year, but.
00:26:54 Paul Bence
I really.
00:26:57 Paul Bence
I know I've mentioned it a lot recently, but because it's South Wales.
00:27:06 Paul Bence
He managed to create, I mean managed to create closeness in an intimate portrait of a place that he isn't.
00:27:15 Paul Bence
And yet know when.
00:27:16 Paul Bence
He spoke to us, he said he three days a week for two years. That's.
00:27:19 Paul Bence
Quite a lot thinking about, I was thinking.
00:27:21 Paul Bence
About that more and more if.
00:27:22 Paul Bence
You think about that?
00:27:23 Dan
Name three days a.
00:27:24 Paul Bence
Month was it? Yeah, it was 3 days.
00:27:26 Paul Bence
A week. I don't think it was a week.
00:27:29 Paul Bence
I thought it was OK, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. I'm wrong. I thought it was 3.
00:27:32 Dan
Days a week. You're I'm happy to be corrected.
00:27:34 Paul Bence
Like 12 last 12 days, a month on this thing. And that's a lot of time going to port.
00:27:39 Paul Bence
Robert, there's a commitment and a drive and a motivation to make the work irrelevant of the didn't know of the success or whether it would be well received or whether people would like it. And the fact that I think it's up there is my favourite book of the year and I see a lot of books this year and he's going against a lot.
00:27:57 Paul Bence
Of well known hitters.
00:27:59 Paul Bence
You know the Watling 10s and the Trent Parks and the.
00:28:05 Paul Bence
And others other.
00:28:06 Dan
The fact that you've placed this over the top.
00:28:08 Dan
Of Saint Trent Park did is a.
00:28:10 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:11 Dan
It's massive.
00:28:12 Paul Bence
I mean trying, I mean it's just.
00:28:14 Paul Bence
I I just like.
00:28:15 Paul Bence
The book a lot. I mean it just I I think it does. I think my bias isn't where I come from, make a big difference in that. But saying that I as a documentary piece of work.
00:28:27 Paul Bence
Yes, wonderful. That's right.
00:28:28 Dan
It's up there for me and I'm not even from South Wales and it's up.
00:28:30 Paul Bence
I did.
00:28:32 Dan
There for me.
00:28:32 Paul Bence
I really just, I really like.
00:28:34 Paul Bence
Looking at it it's I've picked it up loads and I have friends come over the weekend and I said you gotta see this. I was telling them about it and I'll bring.
00:28:40 Paul Bence
It and like.
00:28:41 Paul Bence
Yeah, like, oh, my God. You know this piece and it's it's it's.
00:28:44 Dan
A great book.
00:28:45 Paul Bence
Yeah, it's one of the ones.
00:28:46 Paul Bence
That I've brought out to.
00:28:46 Paul Bence
Friends and shown quite a lot of this.
00:28:48 Paul Bence
You know it's only been right. It's not been out long. Has it ready only.
00:28:52 Paul Bence
The last couple of months.
00:28:54 Dan
I've certainly only had it for.
00:28:55 Dan
A month or two.
00:28:55 Paul Bence
Yeah, it's good done. It's good. It's.
00:28:57 Dan
Good. And I still wanna get one of hats. I.
00:28:59 Dan
See your.
00:29:00 Dan
That your ports have your full investigation club hat. I just. I really like it.
00:29:05 Paul Bence
I only bought because you said you were going.
00:29:06 Paul Bence
To buy one, you want the.
00:29:10 Speaker 3
People love the podcast you, so I'm going.
00:29:11 Dan
To buy them.
00:29:13 Paul Bence
And dude, I did it that moment.
00:29:19 Dan
I hope that's true. That's really good.
00:29:20 Speaker 4
It is.
00:29:24 Paul Bence
So what books have you?
00:29:25 Dan
Like this? Your dog? Why isn't everyone doing more?
00:29:27 Dan
Much with their Facebook.
00:29:30 Paul Bence
That's the way forward.
00:29:30 Dan
What? What other phone book do you want to?
00:29:32 Dan
See merged from.
00:29:35 Dan
Teachers right. This is the thing. If you're releasing a photo book in 2024.
00:29:41 Dan
Yes, right. T-shirts are perfect. You can put a photo on a T.
00:29:44 Dan
Shirt. Right. Right now and wearing a.
00:29:47 Dan
So write AT shirt. Oh yeah, yeah.
00:29:50 Paul Bence
And I just show you hairy belly, but your T-shirt.
00:29:52 Dan
That's my. That's my hairy belly.
00:29:53 Paul Bence
It's all paid. That's all paid for.
00:29:58 Paul Bence
Ohh, nice Dan. Yeah.
00:30:01 Dan
That, that's just. That's just a gift for Bents. There. That's not. That's not.
00:30:05 Paul Bence
Special gift that was so sorry to hear me back.
00:30:06 Dan
Saying anyone else can see.
00:30:09 Dan
It's beautiful.
00:30:11 Paul Bence
It's like a matted carpet.
00:30:14 Dan
Eat it later. He did an idea of it.
00:30:17 Dan
It hurts. Yeah. If you're releasing a Facebook in 2024.
00:30:21 Dan
T-shirts, hats, mugs, mugs. Yeah, like a photo.
00:30:26 Dan
On the mugs. Pretty cool.
00:30:28 Paul Bence
With the coasters.
00:30:33 Paul Bence
It's OK. OK.
00:30:35 Speaker 3
A code.
00:30:36 Speaker 3
Yeah, closer would be good.
00:30:39 Paul Bence
Yeah, we're going to be all about the merch in 2024, guys.
00:30:42 Dan
But it's true.
00:30:42 Dan
Though is like I know, I know being a.
00:30:45 Dan
Photographer and particularly doing.
00:30:47 Dan
The documentary of the Three Things, a bit of a grind, but there's money on the.
00:30:50 Dan
Table like.
00:30:51 Dan
I think we can't be the only ones.
00:30:53 Dan
That like I'd love AT shirt with a.
00:30:55 Dan
Cool viral nails.
00:30:56 Paul Bence
Maybe we just set up a.
00:30:57 Paul Bence
Sharp selling T-shirts with.
00:31:00 Paul Bence
Photographers, we don't tell them and we could.
00:31:02 Dan
Yeah, yes. Now we're talking.
00:31:06 Paul Bence
Also get like a pirated T-shirt.
00:31:08 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:09 Dan
But we could all make.
00:31:10 Dan
That with like T-shirts.
00:31:11 Dan
With live laugh. Love on.
00:31:13 Dan
It and stuff. Yeah, we do fruit of.
00:31:14 Paul Bence
The loom, yeah, yeah.
00:31:15 Dan
Yeah, but it needs to be slightly.
00:31:17 Dan
Different my full of the.
00:31:19 Paul Bence
Doom full. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. OK.
00:31:26 Dan
Sorry, I completely cut you off.
00:31:27 Paul Bence
I know. I was thinking I was thinking.
00:31:31 Paul Bence
How? There's a lot of chat.
00:31:34 Paul Bence
Out there about how easy it is to make a book and how easy it is to make a scene and how easy it is to sell it and how easy it is and how easy it is. And I and I feel there's a bit of honesty missing from that conversation that it is like easy. It's the one word I would use to describe any of it.
00:31:49 Paul Bence
Like if you know what I mean.
00:31:51 Dan
Do you think it's?
00:31:55 Dan
The same way anything can be broken down into small tasks. Yeah, and it's achievable. It's achievable, but it still requires a lot of.
00:32:03 Paul Bence
Motivation. A lot of motivation, a lot of drive, a lot of time.
00:32:10 Paul Bence
Focus energy and and you know, I think you can do you.
00:32:17 Paul Bence
Can do partially bits of it, right? You can do bits.
00:32:20 Paul Bence
Of it, you know, you might tell you to magazine. You might go into Indesign and make.
00:32:24 Paul Bence
Imagine and then you might go to printers and print out using and then you might be left with 180 copies of using sat in.
00:32:32 Paul Bence
Your living room, but.
00:32:33 Paul Bence
The point I actually think the point is that unless you, unless you know how you're going to sell it, yeah, then I would seriously.
00:32:47 Paul Bence
Like, I think there's something. I think there's something about, there's.
00:32:51 Paul Bence
There's each of those stages is.
00:32:52 Paul Bence
Really important for making it and all of it. And I think as photographers sometimes we're, we're maybe better skilled at some sides of the things and we are at the others and I think the one thing I learned this year is that you're not going to be going to all of those ship.
00:33:06 Paul Bence
And there's no way you can front end to back end unless you're a rare breed of your red Thompson. Yeah. Yeah, but.
00:33:11 Dan
I mean you could DIY, it depends what.
00:33:13 Dan
What if you're after a?
00:33:15 Dan
Quality output like if you wanted to look really sleek and professional, then you're gonna struggle to do everything yourself.
00:33:21 Speaker 4
And even not even not right, even now.
00:33:23 Paul Bence
Even even still like you know, I've I've been reading something about, uh, an article with the woman who makes the.
00:33:30 Paul Bence
Books for ghost.
00:33:31 Paul Bence
Vicky, I think your name is ghost.
00:33:33 Paul Bence
Vicky Frost maybe. Yeah, that's.
00:33:35 Paul Bence
Her name and even like.
00:33:37 Paul Bence
She only puts, I think, she was saying she doesn't put many books out of.
00:33:40 Paul Bence
Here maybe 5 or 6.
00:33:41 Dan
I'm note that I'm lying.
00:33:42 Dan
Vicky Frost is the Decker.
00:33:44 Paul Bence
Books. OK. Yeah. I'm not sure if, Vic, I I might be.
00:33:46 Paul Bence
Wrong, so apologies.
00:33:47 Paul Bence
Cost books, but there's a lady there that she did a recent interview and she was saying that, you know, she she limits how many books she can put out and.
00:33:55 Paul Bence
And even her like she sometimes she's left with hundreds of copies of something that she's made because.
00:33:59 Paul Bence
She thought it would do well and it and it hasn't.
00:34:02 Paul Bence
And it's fickle and and and there's like, even with that experience of a publisher that knows how to sell.
00:34:07 Paul Bence
A book, yeah.
00:34:08 Paul Bence
There's still no shift in books. You know there's still a load of books under some of these.
00:34:13 Paul Bence
Bed and you you can hear the I think.
00:34:14
Oh I.
00:34:17 Dan
You know, I've read a lot about.
00:34:20 Paul Bence
DIY self-publishing in two years, I mean there's something amazing about doing that. Absolutely, but.
00:34:27 Paul Bence
My advice I suppose.
00:34:28 Paul Bence
Would be.
00:34:30 Paul Bence
Like you need to have every part of the process clear in your mind about how you're going to do it and how are you going to get rid of it at the end of the day, right? How are you going to physically sell the book when you finish making it?
00:34:43 Paul Bence
And if you've got, I mean.
00:34:44 Dan
Just because you think you have an idea of how you can do it.
00:34:47 Dan
Doesn't mean it's gonna work, no.
00:34:49 Paul Bence
Totally, totally, totally. I I think there's, you know.
00:34:53 Paul Bence
These these, the social media side of things I don't know about that. I'm not sure I've. I've read something else on threads. Some photographer posted posted and it's funny. I made me laugh because it's true, he said. When you're a commercial photographer, you don't care about any of this ****. You don't care about social.
00:35:10 Paul Bence
Media in any way.
00:35:12 Paul Bence
This is so irrelevant. You don't imagine you don't post. You know, you know it's basic.
00:35:13
Yeah, I can.
00:35:16 Paul Bence
You're saying photography isn't this as and I don't know that as well as as when you're in that commercial world, you don't have any time for this ****.
00:35:26 Dan
You you're just solely about business, right?
00:35:28 Paul Bence
Yeah, you're showing me about when is the next job. How can you make my next dollar to survive, you know, and.
00:35:36 Dan
But I think to some extent the.
00:35:39 Dan
The the Commissioners or the producers, whoever it is, is picking up the the photographer at that point, or even the talent if you're.
00:35:47 Dan
A model or or.
00:35:48 Dan
Whatever I I don't necessarily know that a lot of that works through social media. They're not. They're not looking for hashtags to try and work out who they're going to hire. They probably already know who.
00:35:59 Dan
They're going to hireright.
00:36:00 Dan
There's there's some connections.
00:36:01 Paul Bence
This this like.
00:36:03 Paul Bence
And I might be completely wrong. I could be completely wrong. I will stand corrected, but I think the the, the the commercial well established photographers who are gaining the work isn't. I would see 0.0001% of their work is coming from it. Yeah, I'm really small amount. I mean that they may be outliers.
00:36:23 Paul Bence
That they might be, you know, people who get all their work from social media. But I I I I I I my argument would be the the small compared to the vast majority of the other people who who get it from word of mouth from.
00:36:37 Paul Bence
From from Network, a network that exists outside of social media is what I'm trying to say.
00:36:44 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:47 Dan
And I think that's important too, is that like if you've got all your eggs in the social media basket, I would start diversifying is what I was trying to say at some point. Yeah, Instagram will be just like Myspace or Tumblr or.
00:37:00 Paul Bence
Yeah, totally, totally. It's coming. Flicker. Yeah. Yeah, they'll be absolutely. Absolutely.
00:37:07 Paul Bence
And and there's something, I think, something that a lot of us do is ask, what are the benefits like you, you took a hiatus from social media and I and I use it now in a much more sparing way. Like I post if I want to post, but I'm not under any pressure to post. I might not post for a week or two weeks and then I might post five in in a week. And and I I think there's something.
00:37:26 Paul Bence
Like when you contain control over.
00:37:28 Dan
It and some of the blessing and the last.
00:37:30 Dan
Time you posted was like.
00:37:31 Paul Bence
I'm gonna might be quite I've been.
00:37:33 Paul Bence
A bit recently.
00:37:33 Paul Bence
But you know, there's this. There's spaces between them.
00:37:36 Dan
It's telling me.
00:37:37 Dan
That there's multiple posts for me to.
00:37:39 Dan
Look at. That's a great picture. Tell me about that.
00:37:44 Paul Bence
That was a mistake. Believe it or not, that that, that it meant to focus and it didn't focus. And then it looks really good, right? I meant to focus on her face and it didn't focus. And then I.
00:37:53 Paul Bence
I that's the other thing I've been.
00:37:54 Dan
Where is she?
00:37:55 Dan
Is she in a coffee shop, isn't it?
00:37:55 Speaker 3
Yeah, that's the other thing this year.
00:37:57 Paul Bence
That's a really good point. I'm glad.
00:37:58 Paul Bence
You pulled me to that is how how?
00:38:01 Paul Bence
How the outer focus photo photo how the blurry photo, how the photo that isn't perfect isn't crisp. How those photos and how they work within a set of photos to give it something that.
00:38:16 Dan
You showed me a a book.
00:38:17 Dan
Earlier on Wheels of Hell yes. Hell on wheels.
00:38:21 Paul Bence
Hell on wheels, yes.
00:38:22 Dan
Helen Wills, who? Who is that? Oh.
00:38:25 Paul Bence
Nico put me on to that Nico.
00:38:29 Paul Bence
Willy something. Willy. Willy. Willy. Willie Nelson. But something.
00:38:34 Paul Bence
Is it behind you?
00:38:35 Dan
Is it behind me?
00:38:38 Paul Bence
No, no, maybe downstairs. We left it.
00:38:40 Paul Bence
Downstairs we down.
00:38:40 Dan
I have left it downstairs I.
00:38:41 Dan
Bought everything up, but obviously not. Yeah, that that's coming back to our top books of the year that.
00:38:47 Paul Bence
One was really cool. Yeah. Wheels of on fire.
00:38:50 Dan
Hell, hell on.
00:38:51 Dan
Wheels. Hell on wheels, but I don't know who it was by.
00:38:55 Paul Bence
I'll tell you now, hang on.
00:38:56 Dan
Yeah, get the old iPad out and.
00:38:58 Dan
Feel good it, but yeah that.
00:38:59 Dan
Was really good. I know I shouted out a couple of episodes ago, but Laura Panetta was bit. Ohh. It's Billy Thompson's book.
00:39:08 Dan
Hello, sorry sorry.
00:39:09 Paul Bence
And Alan meals.
00:39:10 Dan
Helen Wheels was sorry Willie Spiller. Willie Spiller? Yeah, that was great. It looks like it's. I'm guessing it's old, right? I'm guessing the the old photos from the night.
00:39:18 Paul Bence
19/19/77 to 84.
00:39:21 Dan
OK. And it's all on the New York subway.
00:39:24 Paul Bence
Yeah. Yeah. New York subway system, Swiss photographer Willie Spiller, living in New York at the time. Documenting is, is underground travels with the curiosity of a foreigner.
00:39:34 Dan
OK. Yeah, it looks very cool and that's got that thing that you.
00:39:37 Dan
Were saying about there's.
00:39:40 Dan
They're not. They're not all crisp and sharp.
00:39:44 Dan
But there's an emotion to them.
00:39:47 Paul Bence
And and I think this there's something you learn like it's something like, you know, when you start out and you want everything sharp and you want everything in focus and you want. But I think as you grow as a photographer, you realise that that actually isn't as important as getting the what you're trying to say. And I think that's something I learned this year, something I've really learned this year.
00:39:53 Dan
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:04 Dan
Yeah. Well, you're just like I.
00:40:05 Dan
Can't be *****? Well, yeah, there's.
00:40:06 Speaker 3
A bit of.
00:40:06 Dan
That as well. **** it, that's close.
00:40:09 Dan
Enough close enough to rock'n'roll.
00:40:10 Paul Bence
But no, but there's something. But there's something that amazing happens in your mistakes, I think.
00:40:14 Paul Bence
And and and and looking at those mistakes and think, oh, actually that's not it. It might be a bad photo in the technical sense, but actually it's giving me something.
00:40:15 Dan
Yeah, I hear you.
00:40:24 Paul Bence
Front that an in focus photo can't give.
00:40:27 Dan
Me. Yeah, it it feels like.
00:40:30 Dan
Because there's motion all around us, right? And I think seeing a little bit of movement in a photo can be really powerful. Not always. Sometimes it just makes something look.
00:40:39 Paul Bence
No, no, no.
00:40:40 Dan
A bit. ****, yeah, yeah.
00:40:42 Paul Bence
And it's gotta be. It's gotta be very mostly. What's the word I'm using for? Very limitedly used you can't you know it's.
00:40:49 Dan
It's. Oh, yeah. If it's in every frame of every frame frame is.
00:40:52 Dan
A blurry mess then it's.
00:40:53 Paul Bence
Yeah, I think you gotta use it. Limiting way like you just it. But it's it's a great pause or it's a great way to stop somebody for a minute and think, well, why the fact is he put.
00:41:02 Paul Bence
This blurred photo in but actually.
00:41:04 Paul Bence
Think about it. You need to think about the the whole body of work and where that sits within the body of work and the other project. I don't mean like your whole body of work, you have it done. But no, I think it's use it's it's it's a.
00:41:15 Paul Bence
Useful tool. Yeah, that's.
00:41:17 Dan
A great book. Yeah. And it uses that very.
00:41:19 Dan
Very well. What was Laura's book?
00:41:19 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:22 Paul Bence
Called Hang on, I'll tell you.
00:41:24 Dan
Go back now if you just go back.
00:41:25 Dan
I I read it on.
00:41:25 Paul Bence
That note it's called.
00:41:28 Paul Bence
Youth without age and life without death, yes.
00:41:34 Dan
Right, it's it's work that I've seen before. I think in various places, yeah, I don't know if it's a reprint or not, but it's really good. It's really good. I meant to bring it with.
00:41:42 Dan
Me. I'm sorry. Yeah.
00:41:42 Paul Bence
I haven't seen it and I haven't seen it slip.
00:41:44 Paul Bence
Me by that one, Danny.
00:41:45 Dan
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure you can still get it. It's literally.
00:41:48 Dan
Just come out.
00:41:49 Paul Bence
OK, OK.
00:41:50 Dan
That's really good. That's up there for me this year. And then obviously Ed Thompson. Ed.
00:41:56 Paul Bence
When in the Lone Star State, let's talk about it. I think it is a good person to talk about this year cause he's done a.
00:42:02 Paul Bence
Few things this year and he sorry I pulled the microphone. He made him. He's made his YouTube channel this year. He's done some self. Yeah, pictures on my mind, pictures on my mind, mind on my pictures. Pictures.
00:42:08 Dan
Pictures on my mind.
00:42:12 Paul Bence
On my mind.
00:42:15 Paul Bence
And he's made a couple of bucks, and he's made a couple of scenes and he's been really open in terms of the information that he's given out to other photographers about how things have worked for him and how he's making it work. But I.
00:42:28 Paul Bence
Think how bad will hate me for saying this, but I think what's really important, what I get from Ed.
00:42:38 Paul Bence
Is the commitment and the effort and the.
00:42:44 Paul Bence
The energy that he has to make all of these different things and to keep going.
00:42:49 Paul Bence
It's like this almost.
00:42:52 Dan
Damn, he might be one of the most motivated men we.
00:42:54 Paul Bence
Know, right? Yeah. Almost like a. It's like a train. That doesn't stop. It's like he's got an energy about him, isn't he? And he's gotta. There's. There's something that I found quite addictive like that. I I again you pick up off people. But like, you know.
00:43:10 Paul Bence
I don't have's energy and you don't have's energy but but.
00:43:13 Dan
No, I certainly don't have that. It's back of anyone's energy, but.
00:43:18 Paul Bence
You can run off that like you can. You can see how somebody else is.
00:43:21 Dan
Yeah, it's contagious.
00:43:22 Paul Bence
Right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It did motivate you. It's like, **** me. He's working that hard. I'm working this out. I know I can go up at least another 3 levels.
00:43:30 Paul Bence
And still be 12.
00:43:30 Dan
Below him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:32 Paul Bence
Generating but this is this, it does something to your own psyche where it says, OK, I can work a bit harder. You know, it's not going to kill me to work a.
00:43:40 Paul Bence
Little bit harder.
00:43:41 Paul Bence
If I really love something and I'm passionate about it and I want to drive it, nobody else is going to drive your bus, as you would say, you know, you've got, you've got to.
00:43:49 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:51 Speaker 4
Be the driver of your own.
00:43:52 Paul Bence
That's man. If you wanted to go somewhere, the only way he's going to fracking.
00:43:56 Paul Bence
Get there is by you putting your foot on the accelerator and moving the steering wheel like nobody else is going to do that for you and you, you, you know, I think that's for anything. For anything you do like you like if you want it to happen, you've got to be the one pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, pushing it, pushing it and and putting all of your.
00:44:17 Paul Bence
Your own biases and your own worldviews to one side and.
00:44:22 Paul Bence
Single minded, driven attack and and irrelevant to what like other people think of you. I think that's another thing he feels. Edward feels unabashed by outside perceptions of how he should exist in in photography.
00:44:37 Dan
World totally agree, and so would Leonardo da Vinci.
00:44:42 Dan
He said he had long since come to my attention that people of accomplishment rarely sat back and let things happen to them. They went out and happened to things.
00:44:52 Paul Bence
Yeah, it's true. It's so true, man.
00:44:54 Paul Bence
You've you've literally.
00:44:57 Paul Bence
Foot on the floor.
00:44:59 Paul Bence
Like this was 30 days, not even 30 days, probably 20 days left till the end of the year. What can you make in the next 20 days? Guys, what can you put out there? What can you know? There's still time to do something.
00:45:09 Paul Bence
Good this year. Yeah, yeah.
00:45:14 Dan
Holding yourself to these weird little deadlines? Yeah, it's you. You often get some really good stuff out of it. Yeah, just feeling a bit of pressure. You think it's really helpful.
00:45:21 Paul Bence
Yeah. Yeah, that's another thing. Like we can take from them. Tom's, Tom's wife and love this high communications the the 10 minute task. If this takes less than.
00:45:31 Paul Bence
10 minutes do.
00:45:31 Paul Bence
It right away you.
00:45:33 Paul Bence
Know if you can do it in under 10 minutes. Do it now. Just do.
00:45:35 Paul Bence
It now 10 minutes I.
00:45:36 Paul Bence
Move for that this year.
00:45:37 Paul Bence
Little little 10 minute task.
00:45:39 Dan
That's good, isn't it? That's good.
00:45:40 Paul Bence
Is it so simple?
00:45:41 Paul Bence
And you have a 10 minute timer and you're down, down, down. I think you get some loads in 10 minutes.
00:45:47 Dan
I'll tell you who we should talk to about productivity. Yes, Danny. Danny. Jack. Danny. Jack. Yeah. He's the productivity guy. Ohh. He's read every.
00:45:55 Paul Bence
If I could.
00:45:57 Dan
Book on productivity.
00:46:02 Dan
To the point where I remember he, he once said to me. Oh, I feel like I'm procrastinating by reading all these productivity books.
00:46:09 Dan
Like he called himself out on his productivity.
00:46:11 Dan
I think, yeah, yeah, he's a guy.
00:46:13 Paul Bence
Yeah, we'll get. We'll get Daniel to talk about it. I think it's interesting, I think all.
00:46:16 Paul Bence
Of these things that.
00:46:18 Paul Bence
Allow us allow us to.
00:46:21 Paul Bence
But allow us to move forward. I was going to say I think we all, we all procrastinators and there's going to be there's.
00:46:27 Speaker 3
Going to be.
00:46:28 Paul Bence
Different times in your in your day, your week, your, your where you're sometimes you're feeling motivated in any times when you're not feeling motivated and the skill I think.
00:46:38 Paul Bence
For my 20 years is when those unmotivated moments is you find something to do that is maybe related to what you do, but it doesn't have to be like you know.
00:46:50 Paul Bence
Super meaningful. It can be like editing some photos. It can be archiving some phones. Can you just put the slideshow and looking at the?
00:46:57 Dan
Photos something that Tanya made me do recently that Paul has now also caught on to is post it notes.
00:46:58 Paul Bence
Right.
00:47:05 Paul Bence
Yes, this is a great one. This is a. This is my favourite tip of the year from from Tanya's.
00:47:10 Dan
Book of Advancement I I think it was just Tanya's book of being really annoyed at Dan for not actually doing the things that he was complaining about.
00:47:18 Dan
But essentially what?
00:47:19 Dan
You do is you get a whole big.
00:47:21 Dan
Fat world of post-its.
00:47:23 Dan
And put one task on a post it, stick it to your computer monitor to your fridge to wherever you're going to see it all the time, and then whenever you get any spare moments, just try and complete a post or two. Yeah. And just the act of doing the thing that's covering up your monitor. Yeah. Screwing up and throwing it away.
00:47:43 Paul Bence
It's really great when you don't come and you can peel them off and you have.
00:47:45 Paul Bence
A little pile of.
00:47:46 Dan
Ones you've done? Yeah. So I've now covered Pool's second monitoring.
00:47:51 Dan
Post-its. So I suspect within the next couple of weeks, he's going to want to start getting rid of some of.
00:47:55 Dan
His stuff because he's running out of room.
00:47:57 Dan
For tasks, yeah when he.
00:47:58 Dan
Got 1 runner to three. Then you're the mothership.
00:48:01 Dan
Over. You're like an investment.
00:48:02 Dan
Banker so many monitors.
00:48:06 Paul Bence
That's a good one. That's a really good one. The poster notes helps. It's just a visual thing of something simple that you can do when so. So if you're looking at social.
00:48:14 Dan
Media, yeah, yeah.
00:48:17 Paul Bence
OK.
00:48:17 Dan
And it's it's just, it's just a distraction.
00:48:18 Dan
Right.
00:48:19 Paul Bence
Yes, you got other stuff like what's going on in the news? Yeah, all of it. All of it is just everything is vying for your attention. Everything. Yeah. And yeah, and.
00:48:26 Dan
It's really difficult and it's perfectly engineered to do it.
00:48:30 Paul Bence
All of it is it's all engineered.
00:48:32 Dan
The infinite Scroll of social.
00:48:33 Dan
Media is perfectly engineered to distract you.
00:48:38 Paul Bence
Depressing. And it's I.
00:48:39 Dan
Yeah, I can't bring myself to open it, cause every time I open it honestly reels.
00:48:39 Paul Bence
Think it is.
00:48:43 Dan
You watch one just pops up out of nowhere.
00:48:47 Dan
And then it automatically.
00:48:48 Dan
Goes to the next one.
00:48:48 Dan
And the next one I imagine TikTok must be like heroin I like.
00:48:52 Paul Bence
The ones of people dressing themselves on wheels have you seen?
00:48:54 Paul Bence
Those ones? No, we like.
00:48:56 Paul Bence
Like I don't know some bloke or some girl will.
00:48:58 Paul Bence
Come up and put.
00:48:59 Paul Bence
What they're wearing for the day on and they're like they.
00:49:01 Paul Bence
Just do the top and then.
00:49:02 Dan
I have seen a guy doing.
00:49:03 Dan
This and he.
00:49:04 Dan
Was like he looked so amazing and.
00:49:07 Dan
And then he was just saying, so I've got the Louis Vuitton.
00:49:11 Dan
This isn't quite working with my shoes, so I'm now changing my shoes.
00:49:15 Dan
And then he's.
00:49:16 Dan
At the end, he's got the fragrance. You know, he's like, OK, so this is the clone. I'm wearing this one perfectly matches this and he's like sniffing different stuff. I mean, I wish I had 10% of the energy.
00:49:26 Dan
Because I look a.
00:49:27 Dan
Lot better I'm gonna do with my belly guy.
00:49:27 Paul Bence
Not going to.
00:49:28 Dan
And some Levis and the crafts.
00:49:32 Paul Bence
You're gonna do one time times for 24. Yeah, watching space older, older, older and pale ale. Come write one more book. Let's, let's go with the obvious. The obvious. Get OK? Go on. You can you?
00:49:50 Paul Bence
Can talk about it if you want.
00:49:51 Dan
Monuments by Trent Parker.
00:49:52 Paul Bence
There are monuments, but again, it's a tone. It's a it's a.
00:49:57 Paul Bence
Leather bound with a little metal.
00:49:59 Paul Bence
Plate in it you get which is a like cool little metal thing and it's it's.
00:50:07 Paul Bence
It's really good. It's just.
00:50:08 Dan
It's alright.
00:50:09 Dan
He's he's actually, he's pretty good and.
00:50:11 Dan
You. Yeah. You can take one or two photos. He's not too bad and he looks.
00:50:15 Paul Bence
Through the work again I.
00:50:17 Paul Bence
Was looking at on the weekend again and I had some friends over and I was like they they one of.
00:50:20 Paul Bence
The comments with all.
00:50:21 Paul Bence
This is a bit depressing and.
00:50:23 Dan
I don't really is that the reading of it?
00:50:24 Paul Bence
Yeah. Yeah. And I was like.
00:50:26 Dan
Oh, I can kind of see that to.
00:50:28 Paul Bence
Us and Alex don't pee a bit, but.
00:50:28 Dan
Yeah, maybe.
00:50:31 Paul Bence
I just I. For me it's magical. It's it's not not.
00:50:34 Paul Bence
Depressing. It's it's almost. Yeah, it's it's.
00:50:35 Dan
Inspiring, I find inspiring.
00:50:37 Dan
More than like an uplifting, inspiring way.
00:50:39 Paul Bence
Though no, no. And just like **** have you.
00:50:42 Paul Bence
Done that you.
00:50:43 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:43 Paul Bence
Said that's spicy. The cut, you sweet.
00:50:47 Paul Bence
It's being used, but no, no. But it's it's mind blowing me good. It's like I I I sometimes I I I question.
00:50:58 Dan
The house, right. The How have you managed to produce? That's what he's really good at, though, right? Yeah, he's really good at making you look at something about three or four times and trying to work out. It's like a magician. Yeah, but, you know, the magic isn't real. Yeah, but sometimes you see something you're like, oh, it feels real. Yeah. And I. And that's a lot of the time I'm finding myself in that magical.
00:51:20 Paul Bence
Space with his work. I think that, like, how have you done that? Wow, that is why is that photo with that? Oh my God. Of course. Like those those teams, you shouldn't be side by side. But now when I see them side by side, it was all.
00:51:21 Dan
And you're just.
00:51:22 Dan
What the?
00:51:22 Dan
Hell are you doing?
00:51:32 Paul Bence
It's like they were meant to be together, yes.
00:51:35 Paul Bence
You know, there's there's.
00:51:36 Dan
Right, you you just know that there's probably a significant distance between those two photos.
00:51:43 Speaker 3
And I also that's the other thing.
00:51:44 Paul Bence
I suppose it made me see that.
00:51:48 Paul Bence
How work which shouldn't be able to sit together. Cam. Yeah, you know that that there's more freedom there than we think, but it's a really it's to. It's a skill. It's a really a skill in terms of that sequence and that.
00:52:07 Paul Bence
At the now but, but you know again after you and Mimi speak today and speaking to and speaking to lots of other photographers and artists is they're just another person. Actually, if you think about this right.
00:52:20 Dan
Yeah, of course I.
00:52:21 Paul Bence
And I don't mean.
00:52:22 Paul Bence
That in to you know, to diminish what they do like even when they're, you know, when we were talking about Ramon Perez, the book designer and and.
00:52:38 Dan
It's it's easy to idolise people. Yes, yes.
00:52:41 Dan
And I just for our quote from Leonardo da Vinci. But the reality about Leonardo da Vinci is he was no different to you. Right? Right. You know, he still woke up in the morning.
00:52:52 Dan
Yeah, like this. He may have been a lot more talented, at least than me like, and he may have. He may.
00:52:59 Paul Bence
Do you know?
00:53:00 Paul Bence
About that.
00:53:00 Dan
Have had some of.
00:53:02 Dan
The the best connections going. Do you know? I mean but.
00:53:04 Speaker 3
What is it?
00:53:04 Dan
But ultimately that.
00:53:05 Dan
He he was. He was the guy. He was he.
00:53:07 Speaker 3
This is this is this is I think.
00:53:08 Dan
Was driving his own bus.
00:53:09 Paul Bence
You've hit the nail on the head though. I hit thing you hit the connection is the key.
00:53:14 Paul Bence
And this with Mimi. If you heard him speak and it's with you. If you don't speak and.
00:53:23 Paul Bence
Yes, you can go and make your work right. You can go and make them self publish and do all of that. But if you don't have the people like the David Companies and the Ramon Pesses and and the connections to the.
00:53:35 Paul Bence
To the larger network of photography community that you you don't have access to that your work is going to sit you. And so The thing is, I think what you've got to do and and I think.
00:53:46 Paul Bence
This is true and it's.
00:53:47 Paul Bence
Something that that we will do is you got to make those connections and you've gotta put yourself in those uncomfortable positions where you might not like it.
00:53:55 Paul Bence
Might not be you as a person, but if you believe in your work and you want your work to succeed out of the vacuum of your own body.
00:54:04 Paul Bence
Then there's something about making you and you know we talk about portfolio version and showing you work to other photographers like that that I think that's you like that's that's what you that's what you diversity is really fundamentally right. It's right it's it's critique for three years and feedback and learning from other photographers coming in to talk to you.
00:54:23 Paul Bence
About how they make their work, learning what you like.
00:54:26 Paul Bence
Yeah, learning what you like. What you.
00:54:27 Paul Bence
Dislike where you want to.
00:54:28 Paul Bence
What your passions are, what your.
00:54:29 Paul Bence
You know all of those.
00:54:30 Dan
Things can I just check though, cause you're not. You're not necessarily saying and I I already know the answer to this question to some extent, but you're not saying.
00:54:38 Dan
Clear following right.
00:54:40 Dan
You're saying you're out there creating following you're saying?
00:54:43 Paul Bence
You need to make.
00:54:44 Paul Bence
Out outside of social media, outside of that, that world, real life connections with people who have credibility within the field of photography, who have made it or an experience in in doing the thing that you're trying to do. Yeah. And and I think making those connections is probably more important than any of the social media.
00:55:04 Paul Bence
Any of it, it's that's I think that's the truth. I think that's the truth.
00:55:08 Paul Bence
Is that if, if you're, if you're willing to put yourself out there, if you're willing to go meet the people, then, and even if it only initially suggests saying hello, I I I'm done. I really like your work. That's it. Doesn't doesn't have to be any more than that initially, right. But I think by doing that by actually doing that.
00:55:28 Paul Bence
You're you're enabling your work when you make.
00:55:32 Paul Bence
Get it? It's been validated, I suppose in some ways by people that have had experience and have done it. And and there's lots of guys like this American. I don't. He's a magnum photographers name is David Carroll and he's he's really quite outspoken against that kind of thing, right? He's like, yeah, I just made my own ******* work, man. I just put it out there and ******* people.
00:55:52 Paul Bence
I don't like it. I don't give a ****. And this, like, appreciate that though. But but but. But there's something about that that's quite appealing, but actually what, but unfortunately like 99% of photographers out there that way.
00:55:58 Dan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:04 Paul Bence
Isn't going to.
00:56:05 Paul Bence
Succeed for you. If you haven't been bothered to make connections with photographers, with bookmakers, with publishers.
00:56:13 Paul Bence
Everything that exists where where you can.
00:56:16 Dan
Those people have already worked that **** out. If, if, if, if, if I locked myself in.
00:56:20 Dan
A room, right?
00:56:21 Dan
Now yeah, with.
00:56:22 Dan
No outside influence. Yeah. And try to make a book. Yeah, it would be rubbish. Yeah. Who? Who to speak.
00:56:27 Speaker 3
I wouldn't know.
00:56:28 Dan
To about printing.
00:56:30 Dan
I wouldn't know what to look at with paper.
00:56:32 Dan
Mark, I certainly wouldn't know what to do with publishing, right if.
00:56:36 Dan
I took in like all of that stuff, even this sequence in the edit. Yeah. Or how do you adjust correctly for colour without some outside info?
00:56:45 Dan
Since I know what I'd produce would be crap.
00:56:49 Dan
Even if I had.
00:56:50 Dan
A huge following, which I definitely don't.
00:56:52 Dan
It would still be.
00:56:54 Dan
Unsellable because it would just look terrible.
00:56:54 Speaker 3
And and what what?
00:56:56 Paul Bence
I suppose what we're trying to say is and saying ways us back to the idea of the event and the idea of the novita.
00:57:03 Paul Bence
Yeah. Is that?
00:57:04 Paul Bence
You know, by making those connections in the real world.
00:57:07 Paul Bence
They look it's.
00:57:08 Paul Bence
It's invaluable. I think it's it's something that will, it will help you, you your work and.
00:57:17 Paul Bence
Growing, actually. Yeah. I just think that's so important. And I think it's something that we all forget and we get a lot of, I I hear a lot of it on social media about dismissive of photo world and dismissive of of a certain way of doing things. And actually you couldn't. I think you just gotta.
00:57:33 Speaker 4
Get rid of.
00:57:34 Dan
All of that noise, you know what, though?
00:57:35 Paul Bence
All it's all noise. It's all noise.
00:57:37 Dan
I think I I think that is.
00:57:38 Dan
Noise, but also the thing you're losing out on if you don't get connected up.
00:57:44 Dan
Is because it sounds a bit gross, saying you know networking and this and that and it sounds very self-serving even if you remove the oh, these people have expertise doing a thing that I'm trying to do but take all that away. These are people that have the same interests in me like they've been some.
00:57:59 Dan
Of the most amazing people I've met in recent years.
00:58:03 Paul Bence
Yeah, I I I I.
00:58:05 Paul Bence
Just think it's worth reiterating that.
00:58:09 Paul Bence
You, you, you, you might become super successful via social media. You might be one of those lucky photographers with little thousands of followers. But I argue that even after speaking to Josh recently, you know, yeah, he's like, you know, ****. I hate it like, you know, he said I may have 100,000 followers, but only like, you know, 2000 people.
00:58:20 Dan
The case.
00:58:29 Paul Bence
Of maybe by not even 2000 people, maybe 50 only by my book, you know, or or 25 or, you know it's not. It's it's that massive number feels really.
00:58:42 Paul Bence
That's what I'm looking for. Oh, it's like, oh, my God, that should be what we're all aiming to achieve this great following on Instagram.
00:58:48 Dan
And you're just saying it's not.
00:58:49 Dan
It's not valuable as it looks like it is not outside.
00:58:51 Paul Bence
Outside. Totally, totally. I think it's not. I think what's more valuable is the real world connections. Yeah. And putting yourself in those awkward positions where I hate it. You hate it. It's not something you'd like. I I think not. A lot of people. I mean, they maybe some people.
00:59:04 Paul Bence
They were like narcissists, but.
00:59:06 Paul Bence
Like for me, the idea of going into a room like we went to BOP, this is a really good example. You we went to POP recently. We didn't really say no to anybody else, did we? We kept ourselves, we, you and Tom, we did things.
00:59:16 Speaker 3
Really sort of there.
00:59:18 Paul Bence
We could have been much more.
00:59:20 Paul Bence
What's the word?
00:59:22 Speaker 3
Like oh hey, we've done a.
00:59:22 Speaker 3
Pool. But we didn't know anything we.
00:59:23 Dan
Yeah, we weren't doing any networking.
00:59:24 Speaker 3
Felt like we were outsiders, didn't.
00:59:26 Speaker 3
We, we felt, didn't you feel like a little bit?
00:59:28 Speaker 3
Like an outsider. Yeah, yeah.
00:59:30 Speaker 4
And I think.
00:59:31 Paul Bence
I think we want to be we want to move from the outside to the inside that. That's what I'm trying to say, but not in a way that's not anyway, because it's going to benefit my work and it's going to make me sell more books. But it's just because that experience exists.
00:59:42 Paul Bence
Here, and it's gonna if.
00:59:44 Dan
If there's something about it felt a bit gross. Well, we all know that. And again we this. Sorry, this has been a super photography heavy.
00:59:52 Dan
Episode, but we all know that.
00:59:53 Dan
There are people that are buying photo books aren't your average people, they're all.
00:59:57 Dan
Profiles, right? So it makes sense that you're going to market yourself to the people doing the exact same share as you are, right, because that's who's buying your book. But when you put lots.
01:00:08 Paul Bence
Of people in one.
01:00:09 Dan
Place that are all doing that. It doesn't feel like a beautiful big community that we're all part of. It feels like a meat market. Yeah. And. And, you know, one of the things I'm and I love being a person, I love them more in paradise and I.
01:00:20 Paul Bence
Really. Like amazing, right? Right.
01:00:21 Dan
Yes, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I.
01:00:22 Dan
Should have caveated that way.
01:00:23 Dan
Totally. It was an amazing an amazing event.
01:00:26 Paul Bence
But but I believe I did that I'm. I'm really reopen of this I when I came away from it. The one feeling I was feeling a little bit depressed. I was feeling a little. I said this to you didn't have to.
01:00:35 Paul Bence
On a day like it's like, Oh my God, there's all these photographers with all these books and.
01:00:41 Paul Bence
Around I don't know. We just I.
01:00:43 Dan
But would you wanna do that would?
01:00:44 Dan
You wanna?
01:00:45 Dan
Really difficult. There's not. Let's Fast forward, right? Let's Fast forward to 2026, right? Yeah. End of 2024. Yeah. You've sequenced you've printed wonder trails out. It's.
01:00:46 Speaker 3
Just leave that.
01:00:58 Dan
Hard cover it's.
01:00:59 Dan
A proper book. It's a proper photography book.
01:01:01 Dan
Right.
01:01:03 Dan
Now do you wanna go?
01:01:04 Dan
BOP and try and sell your book.
01:01:07 Paul Bence
Do you know what, before this year, I would have said no? Yeah, no, absolutely. And really. And and I'll tell you why not. Maybe not. Have a store and selling my book, but I would like to go down a network.
01:01:20 Dan
No, no, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Paul Benz is behind the table. You. You've got your books in front of you. You've thought this awkward moment where other photographers come and pick up your book and you're looking him in the eye. And they're like, oh, this is nice.
01:01:24 Speaker 4
No, I don't know, I said.
01:01:34 Dan
And then and then. Is that like are they?
01:01:35 Paul Bence
I just. I'm just cringing. I'm cringing. I'm cringing on the inside as you're talking about it. Right, because if that's me, who I am, right. But I know. I know there's nothing wrong with.
01:01:36 Dan
Going to buy this?
01:01:39 Dan
I know.
01:01:43 Paul Bence
It and I should be.
01:01:45 Dan
I'm not knocking it and anybody that.
01:01:46 Dan
Does it? Is. Is.
01:01:46 Speaker 4
Amazing you have.
01:01:47 Paul Bence
So much respect from you. Absolutely I.
01:01:49 Dan
Had billion 100%.
01:01:50 Speaker 4
Because I I find it really like I couldn't.
01:01:53 Paul Bence
Do it in small talk is when I.
01:01:54 Paul Bence
Struggle with. I think that's I could still have people.
01:01:56 Dan
'S books, though? Yeah, I could go there, right?
01:01:57 Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, could. Absolutely.
01:02:00 Speaker 3
If if I went there and.
01:02:01 Dan
I had like I've got Paul Benson's book here.
01:02:03 Paul Bence
Tom calling Tom Cole dot kilos called Bailey.
01:02:04 Speaker 3
Falling car, yeah.
01:02:07 Dan
Yeah, but maybe we've got like, a few idle hands adjacent people, right. And we're put 100%, I could sit behind that stall and go.
01:02:07 Paul Bence
Right.
01:02:16 Dan
These are some.
01:02:17 Dan
Of my friends and their work is incredible. Yes, yes.
01:02:19 Paul Bence
You are absolutely 100%.
01:02:20 Dan
Absolutely. You just put in your.
01:02:22 Paul Bence
But when it was gross, when it's it's got.
01:02:24 Dan
My name on.
01:02:25 Paul Bence
The book. Yes, I think that's the problem, isn't it? When it, but that's maybe a British thing, right? It's a it's a it's. And I think we, I think part of it is I think is trying to get over that like, yeah, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with self promotion.
01:02:29 Dan
Yeah. I mean, let's move back.
01:02:39 Paul Bence
Little thing, it's just it feels a bit icky. Icky. Yeah.
01:02:45 Dan
Let's talk movies.
01:02:46 Paul Bence
OK, films. What? What films have you like this you've seen? I haven't seen many films, so.
01:02:50 Paul Bence
I'm leaving this.
01:02:50 Dan
Open to you completely. OK, you've not seen.
01:02:52 Dan
Anything. Well, Oppenheimer.
01:02:55 Dan
Obviously it's like that.
01:02:56 Dan
To you.
01:02:57 Dan
Oh my God, they just looked incredible. I mean the the story is amazing.
01:03:02 Dan
It was very, very quick, like it was a longer movie, but.
01:03:06 Dan
Because they're trying to cover this.
01:03:08 Dan
Really key point in history and you're you're seeing it through the eyes of Oppenheimer. It's it's.
01:03:16 Dan
It fell very fast. All the scenes felt felt like.
01:03:19 Paul Bence
They just did it, you know.
01:03:21 Dan
Nolan is it?
01:03:22 Paul Bence
Noel, I'm Christopher Nolan. Yeah, yeah. Christopher Nolan.
01:03:24 Dan
Yeah, Christopher Nolan.
01:03:26 Paul Bence
Ashborne yeah, British born.
01:03:30 Speaker 3
So the other one.
01:03:31 Dan
That I saw literally.
01:03:32 Dan
The other day, yes, another heavy hitter. Go on, Napoleon. Ridley Scott. OK. Yes, yes.
01:03:40 Dan
Epic. I don't know how accurate.
01:03:42 Dan
The history is.
01:03:42 Paul Bence
But apparently it's not that accurate from orange.
01:03:44 Paul Bence
But yet you.
01:03:45 Paul Bence
Had a big or something the press about it like, you know like 1.
01:03:48 Dan
Well, it's a movie, isn't.
01:03:49 Dan
It like you're hitting it.
01:03:51 Speaker 4
Like exactly even.
01:03:52 Paul Bence
The most accurate movie, I wonder how accurate they are.
01:03:55 Dan
Yeah, I mean.
01:03:56 Dan
I wasn't going to to learn. I was going to enjoy an experience. Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about. It's gonna sound really stupid, but, you know, like the battle scenes. Yeah.
01:04:06 Dan
It's at a point where there are guns and cannons, but people are also still sword fighting. Is that that weird? So the the battles are huge.
01:04:16 Dan
Like there's thousands of people on the screen at once, and they're and it's brutal, like it's great movie, really. And and it's really Scott. So it's beautifully shot.
01:04:27 Paul Bence
OK, OK. Yeah.
01:04:28 Dan
Really, really, really good.
01:04:30 Dan
Once you are.
01:04:31 Dan
This year, OK, so it's not from this year, but recently me and Tanya have been watching all the Sofia Coppola movies.
01:04:38 Paul Bence
OK, OK.
01:04:38 Dan
Because she's got a new one coming out.
01:04:40 Dan
Next year, early next year that she.
01:04:42 Paul Bence
You've seen Bobby this year, did you? I haven't seen.
01:04:43 Paul Bence
I did see.
01:04:45 Dan
Barbie, I did see Barbie. I I didn't see it in the cinema bus. I saw it when it came out on the stream in platforms.
01:04:53 Dan
It said maybe about Bobby. I don't know. I'm not excited, mate. I I've got.
01:04:56
OK.
01:04:57 Dan
To be honest, it was a movie, yeah.
01:04:59 Dan
It was entertaining, OK?
01:05:01 Paul Bence
What TV? Any TV shows you've seen them kind of think of anything you've seen this year. It's really difficult to remember.
01:05:07 Dan
What? What have you been watching recently? So we watched the last.
01:05:10 Paul Bence
Of us? Yeah. I haven't seen that yet. I haven't seen that.
01:05:13 Dan
If zombies like a good zombie yeah go wrong. Yeah, it's really good. OK, because we've watched so much stuff this year.
01:05:21 Paul Bence
And there's been some stuff I really like this.
01:05:23 Paul Bence
Year I can't remember any of it.
01:05:25 Paul Bence
It's terrible when my my short term memory is terrible.
01:05:30 Dan
What you're thinking, so Sofia Coppola?
01:05:33 Paul Bence
Oh, the bear the bear.
01:05:35 Paul Bence
Cocaine bear cocaine bear was amazing. I can't believe you like that. It's lots of people like there's lots of people are like I see. That's the kind of time they don't have to sit down. There's two hours of a beer high on coke.
01:05:40 Dan
Was a really good movie.
01:05:42 Dan
What are you talking about?
01:05:52 Dan
Well, well, obviously cut from a very different cloth because I think that was cinematic genius.
01:05:58 Dan
OK. And it was executed in, in the?
01:06:01 Dan
Exact way you wanted it to be. It had.
01:06:03 Dan
OK, OK. Softness and the tenderness to it. Did it? Yeah. Did it? Yeah. You really felt for the bear. Did you? OK OK. Yeah.
01:06:13 Paul Bence
Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting.
01:06:14 Dan
Yeah, you're you're really.
01:06:15 Dan
Gonna like it.
01:06:16 Dan
It's really kind.
01:06:18 Dan
It's it's just a.
01:06:19 Dan
Really good. It's like it's a.
01:06:21 Dan
Feel good movie for the ages. I've gotta. Yeah, you, you. You should watch it.
01:06:22 Paul Bence
I'm going to watch it.
01:06:23 Paul Bence
I'm just I am and this week is gonna be cocaine day.
01:06:26 Dan
Week. Yeah. Yeah, you should watch.
01:06:28 Dan
It with the kids.
01:06:28 Paul Bence
OK. OK. Well, I just trying to think of.
01:06:35 Paul Bence
Places where.
01:06:40 Paul Bence
Places where I've seen some of this really cool this year. Ah, let's not. We can't pass up. I know we talked on the bit recently, but our man with the fingers.
01:06:49 Dan
Bobby fingers.
01:06:50 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the greatest.
01:06:52 Paul Bence
Thing I found on the Internet that you.
01:06:53 Paul Bence
Buy mild and yeah, I mean it is like it's it's it's.
01:06:57 Dan
So for those that aren't initiated and by now you really should be. Yeah, Bobby Fingers is making videos on YouTube. They're very long. You have to wait.
01:07:10
Right.
01:07:11 Dan
Long time between episodes.
01:07:14 Dan
But he's a.
01:07:15 Paul Bence
Creative it's mind-blowing for this, it's mind-blowing. It's mind blowing. Just, yeah, rules there.
01:07:20 Dan
You're a journey, right?
01:07:22 Dan
Roller coaster.
01:07:23 Paul Bence
The breadth and.
01:07:24 Paul Bence
The skill involved in creating a piece of work like running.
01:07:28 Dan
So it's it's what? What would you say it is? Is it like, is it dioramas is?
01:07:31 Speaker 3
He's not.
01:07:32 Dan
It sculpture? Is it what? What is he doing?
01:07:33 Paul Bence
He's a bit of everything. He's.
01:07:34 Paul Bence
An artist? He's what?
01:07:35 Paul Bence
He's in in the true sense of the word. Yeah, he's a multifaceted.
01:07:41 Paul Bence
Artist where he eats.
01:07:45 Paul Bence
I don't know how to describe it, but I would say that he uses all the tools available to an artist and he from video to music. Yeah, to sculpture to an idea. All of it. And then it's how it's Carl how and he's hilarious. Yeah. So all of that is wrapped up in this.
01:08:06 Dan
Really dry.
01:08:09 Dan
Irish sense of humour.
01:08:10 Paul Bence
Mind boring it's mind blowing. It is mind blow.
01:08:14 Paul Bence
That that's the best thing I've seen.
01:08:16 Dan
This year, so the first, the first one he did was a diorama of Mel Gibson being arrested for drunk driving test and and he goes to incredible lengths to interview people to find out what it would have really been.
01:08:30 Dan
To be there, it's just, it's just so good. The second one was a diorama of.
01:08:39 Dan
It was. It was a fight. Who is it? A fight between.
01:08:43 Dan
Right. It's not important. Was this a goal?
01:08:46 Paul Bence
Yeah, yeah. Was the goal. He was, wasn't it? Steven Seagal, and yeah.
01:08:48 Dan
Yeah. Well, I think somebody else.
01:08:52 Dan
Like a stuntman or something.
01:08:53 Speaker 3
But it's if things that shouldn't.
01:08:54 Paul Bence
Be important or relevant that it makes relevant.
01:08:57 Dan
Well, I mean the most.
01:08:58 Dan
Recent one. Yeah, it's Bezos, Jeff Bezos.
01:09:02 Speaker 3
The bull. The Jeff Bezos.
01:09:03 Dan
He he turns his fate his face into like a 7 foot long boat. And then he goes in the boat.
01:09:12 Speaker 3
It's honestly you.
01:09:13 Paul Bence
Have it's very hard to quantify and to explain to somebody.
01:09:17 Paul Bence
Cool. Well, actually it.
01:09:19 Dan
Is. Yeah, he's making a a a boat out of this very wealthy man's face. And. And at some point, he gets a hair transplanted from his **** into his head. And it's and it's all relevant to the story.
01:09:29 Paul Bence
To discount.
01:09:31 Paul Bence
All relevant to the story and it all comes together in one final he goes on stage with King Kong Company. Yeah, festival. Some festival plays to a few thousand people. The mask on.
01:09:43 Dan
With a mask on singing about who's looking after your kids. It's just incredible. Like it's just our journey, says their rollercoaster is so good.
01:09:50 Paul Bence
I I'm not seeing like I.
01:09:52 Paul Bence
I'm, you know, I haven't seen a lot of stuff on the Internet. I've not seen anything.
01:09:56 Dan
Make it. There's nothing quite like it, is it? No, it's.
01:09:58 Speaker 4
OK.
01:09:59 Paul Bence
I think he holds. I think he wins the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. If there's. If there's anything you watch with your family, maybe Christmas after just talking into the Turkey. But Bobby fingers on for 30 minutes can.
01:10:01 Dan
He's won the Internet. Let's turn it off now.
01:10:05 Paul Bence
Have won.
01:10:12 Dan
You watch that with the I think you.
01:10:14 Paul Bence
Could this? I think really I see.
01:10:15 Dan
He swears the little one does.
01:10:16 Dan
He swear. Not really. I don't know. He just really swear he doesn't. He's not. Really, I don't think.
01:10:22 Paul Bence
I I I am going to put that on for my mother-in-law. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My message. And John. Uncle John. Yeah.
01:10:27 Dan
She'll. She'll really love that.
01:10:30 Dan
They're they're gonna love it.
01:10:31 Paul Bence
Mate, I'm just gonna. OK, cool.
01:10:32 Dan
And then make him watch cocaine there.
01:10:35 Dan
I've gotta watch your Kings Day on Christmas Day. That's it is very festive movie, absolutely.
01:10:40 Speaker 3
Can the kids watch?
01:10:47 Speaker 3
OK. Anything else? Try to think of anything.
01:10:50 Speaker 3
Else you have to add.
01:10:50 Dan
Open your iPad a second, so we add.
01:10:53 Dan
Music exhibited music and exhibitions exhibition. I'm going to throw some music at you just because of, you know, it's that.
01:10:53 Paul Bence
Music, music and.
01:11:00 Dan
Time of year where your.
01:11:02 Dan
Music Player of Choice is telling you.
01:11:05 Paul Bence
What you've liked?
01:11:05 Dan
All about how much.
01:11:06 Dan
Time you've been unproductive and listening to music. So OK, right, we've.
01:11:10 Paul Bence
Got. And what's your most played song in 2023 years?
01:11:14 Dan
Oh, I don't know, I.
01:11:14 Dan
Don't have some? I I will.
01:11:16 Paul Bence
Maybe I do. I do. I've been.
01:11:18 Dan
Against you, you recount me with your tales of.
01:11:20 Paul Bence
Mines been late by now.
01:11:22 Paul Bence
This I played a lot.
01:11:23 Paul Bence
This you can't play it, we.
01:11:25 Dan
Can't play on here. Oh ****.
01:11:26 Dan
****, we can't play it. I'm sorry that maybe if we.
01:11:27 Speaker 3
Even if you talk over it.
01:11:30 Dan
Talk over it.
01:11:31 Paul Bence
I think so. If you talk over it.
01:11:33 Paul Bence
OK, I won't tell anyone if you don't. Hopefully we won't get like, barred or something. Yeah. So this is Nils from late. And what I found this year is when I wanna focus and do some work. Serious benz's work. When I put my head down. Yeah. And I put this piece of music on it does something instantly to me. It's this album. What does it do?
01:11:54 Paul Bence
It just puts me in a zone of Chillness and of.
01:11:58 Paul Bence
Of I don't know is really difficult to describe of introspection, OK.
01:12:05 Paul Bence
Just chills my brain.
01:12:06 Paul Bence
Just you know, so you can just chill your brain and it just forces you to just, like, say, breathe out. It's got the same kind of.
01:12:18 Speaker 3
And it's got that feel of.
01:12:19 Speaker 4
It like that crackly feel, you know.
01:12:20 Speaker 3
It's not perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I I.
01:12:23 Dan
Can hear it it it feels.
01:12:26 Dan
That introspection, and that gentleness, it reminds me of cocaine bear. OK, OK, so top songs.
01:12:40 Speaker 3
And you see this?
01:12:40 Dan
Isn't really a, so there's a couple of songs on playlists that I'm playing quite a lot. OK, there's a there's a remix of the rice song called Holy by Frank Wideman.
01:12:53 Paul Bence
Wideman. Yeah, yeah.
01:12:55 Dan
So his remix of holy by why?
01:12:59 Dan
It's it's been played quite a lot and.
01:13:02 Dan
Chamber a long time.
01:13:03 Dan
Ago I one of my showers was that wilderness by by hundreds.
01:13:10 Paul Bence
Yes, yes.
01:13:11 Dan
So it turns out.
01:13:11 Dan
That that's the most fun record of the.
01:13:13 Paul Bence
Year this should be one of my most I love this. I think I gave this a show to Italy in the mid lake.
01:13:19 Paul Bence
Beyond the Wizard's leave Roscoe just.
01:13:22 Dan
Yeah, I remember this was quite recent you.
01:13:24 Paul Bence
This is good. This is good, man, this is.
01:13:24 Dan
You shouted us out, right?
01:13:26 Paul Bence
So good Roscoe love a bit.
01:13:28 Paul Bence
Of Roscoe.
01:13:28 Paul Bence
Yum Yuck was up there for me, Arlo Parks parks at Kroger. Do you know what? I don't know.
01:13:35
He wasn't the.
01:13:44 Paul Bence
Love this song I played. This is my.
01:13:46 Paul Bence
Most played song of the Year Ohh is it?
01:13:48 Paul Bence
What's this something Maria?
01:13:50 Dan
Ella, OK, cool.
01:13:52 Paul Bence
And again, it's one of those pieces of music that it just chills. Me just puts me into that nice state of mind.
01:14:00 Paul Bence
You know that.
01:14:00 Dan
Yeah, I really like that. That record that whole record is incredible.
01:14:03 Paul Bence
Yeah, it's amazing. They're amazing. Amazing. Do you know?
01:14:07 Dan
An artist? It doesn't even matter. Wow.
01:14:08 Dan
And you put on, but does that for me.
01:14:10 Paul Bence
Is HV OB OK? I'm not really.
01:14:13 Paul Bence
Listen to much here.
01:14:13 Dan
Well, I spent apparently 3200 minutes listening to him this year. Yeah, I listen.
01:14:18 Dan
To him, not but.
01:14:19 Speaker 3
I've always got music.
01:14:20 Dan
Playing in the background, I'm always listening to music.
01:14:22 Paul Bence
OK.
01:14:22 Paul Bence
Yeah, Big Moon, Big Moon this year.
01:14:26 Speaker 4
People with wide eyes Kelly Lee Owens.
01:14:28 Dan
Fellow Welsh lass.
01:14:29 Dan
OK.
01:14:30 Speaker 3
Kelly. Yes, yes, I did.
01:14:31 Paul Bence
Come across Kelly? Yeah.
01:14:33 Paul Bence
Telling me.
01:14:34 Speaker 3
There was another.
01:14:36 Paul Bence
Who was it?
01:14:38 Dan
Totally enormous extinct dinosaurs. OK, you'd like totally enormous extinct dinosaurs.
01:14:43 Paul Bence
OK.
01:14:45 Dan
There's got to be a quicker.
01:14:46 Dan
Way of saying it.
01:14:48 Dan
Shame Kendrick Lamar Ross from friends, Ross Ross from friends.
01:14:53 Paul Bence
From friends. Yeah, well.
01:14:54 Paul Bence
The big level of awesome friends on you.
01:14:59 Paul Bence
There was a there was a song while there was a country song that all the right wingers in America thought was like related to them. This year I'm trying to find it for you and it's so good. It's like northern men of north. It's something like that north of.
01:15:16 Paul Bence
Was it north of?
01:15:21 Paul Bence
Yes, this is it, Oliver. Anthony, right. So this this, we have all the right wingers in all the right wingers in America thought this was about, yeah, that's not actually said when he beat, he said now I'm a Democrat, so it's it's like a real country.
01:15:26
I'm selling my soul.
01:15:31 Dan
This was our anthem.
01:15:40 Paul Bence
That's good.
01:15:41 Dan
I do you know what country?
01:15:42 Dan
Is the one genre that.
01:15:44 Dan
I just can't get into.
01:15:45 Paul Bence
I love it. I love it. I.
01:15:47 Paul Bence
Love a bit of cool man, so I.
01:15:48 Speaker 4
Used to.
01:15:49 Speaker 3
Grow up way.
01:15:49 Paul Bence
Way best friends.
01:15:51 Paul Bence
Dad used to have, like thousands of the cassettes, and he used to tape country music off the.
01:15:56 Paul Bence
Off the radio.
01:15:58 Speaker 4
And he and he had such a Steve.
01:15:58 Paul Bence
OK.
01:16:02 Paul Bence
He had an amazing and amazing.
01:16:05 Paul Bence
Collection of country music and I think that's where it used to.
01:16:08 Paul Bence
Be on in the.
01:16:09 Paul Bence
OK. And I think that's kind of.
01:16:11 Paul Bence
It this way.
01:16:12 Dan
It's just cemented in there now love a.
01:16:14 Dan
Bit of care, I just can't.
01:16:14 Paul Bence
It, yeah.
01:16:16 Paul Bence
Love the stories that they they reel off in their country songs. It's it's.
01:16:20 Dan
I don't mind a bit of Johnny Cash, but I I feel like that's where it's cheating. It's so mainstream at this point. Yeah, it is. It doesn't really feel like.
01:16:29 Paul Bence
Who was he? Was she was telling me about the 9 inch nails.
01:16:32 Paul Bence
And because you're.
01:16:32 Dan
Ohh her yeah.
01:16:34 Dan
Yeah, we I went. Yeah, we've already done this on the podcast. But yeah, by night, nails was covered by Johnny Cash and Weird Link that was done because Rick Rubin.
01:16:46 Dan
Had basically realised that he was in a really bad place and just forced him to just stay in the studio, so he managed to crank three albums out of Johnny Cash in a really short period of time before before he died, which is.
01:16:58 Paul Bence
Amazing. Amazing.
01:17:01 Dan
Just been the gift that.
01:17:02 Dan
Keeps on giving to yeah to everyone.
01:17:03 Paul Bence
Rick Rubin. That's another book. This year, the Creative Act of being Rick Rubin. Really good. You enjoyed it? Yeah. Start to finish. Booker, keep coming backwards is to is. That photo works one.
01:17:15 Dan
Photo works.
01:17:17 Dan
I don't know where.
01:17:18 Paul Bence
It's gone.
01:17:20 Paul Bence
Is it up to you?
01:17:20 Dan
No, it's not.
01:17:22 Dan
I think it might.
01:17:22 Dan
Be downstairs. Yeah, but that is a great book.
01:17:24 Dan
Wolf. Who's that wolf?
01:17:26 Paul Bence
Sasha Wolfe. Sasha wolf. Yeah, it's great. It's great because she just asked the same question to 40 different photographers on the process on.
01:17:34 Paul Bence
Yeah, it's just great. It just makes you, I just think it just really like you something you realise is the process is individual and it's the same and it's different do.
01:17:43 Dan
You think you want to come on.
01:17:45 Paul Bence
She does a podcast, actually, a really good podcast, and I reckon we can throw out there.
01:17:51 Paul Bence
Like those are.
01:17:51 Paul Bence
The kind of people I think we're going to get on this year, like the real.
01:17:54 Paul Bence
Fingers, yeah.
01:17:56 Paul Bence
You know, I'd like to get a.
01:17:57 Paul Bence
Couple of real fingers.
01:17:59 Dan
Who's the lady that directed cocaine bear?
01:18:02 Dan
Do you think she can?
01:18:07 Speaker 4
She is. She's quite she's quite.
01:18:08 Paul Bence
But the feel good family hit cocaine. They're famous, isn't she? Yeah, because I I read an article about her this year and.
01:18:11 Dan
The director.
01:18:14 Paul Bence
She was talking about it.
01:18:15 Dan
Oh, that's what I'm saying.
01:18:16 Dan
A coupler. Yeah. So we've been watching her movies. I do not feel like any movies I've seen before. They're like hour and a half portraits of their character. They're amazing. They're so deep, layered and nuanced. They're just really good.
01:18:28 Paul Bence
Well, give me some. Give me some movie.
01:18:29 Dan
But she's got a book coming out.
01:18:31 Dan
A photo book, A Sofia.
01:18:32 Dan
Coppola archive. I've preordered it. It comes out this week, I think.
01:18:33 Paul Bence
And she.
01:18:36 Paul Bence
OK. Elizabeth Banks directed cocaine beer.
01:18:40 Paul Bence
There you go, mate, it's cooking pippies.
01:18:44 Dan
Well, I'd I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
01:18:47 Paul Bence
The cooking beer, also known as Pablo Escober.
01:18:51 Dan
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
01:18:53 Paul Bence
Sometimes spelled Escober or Cokie, the beer was 175 pound, 79 kilogramme American black bear that fatally overdosed on cocaine in 1985. So there you go.
01:19:04 Dan
OK.
01:19:07 Paul Bence
The cocaine had been dropped by drug smugglers in the wilderness in Tennessee, USA.
01:19:13 Paul Bence
So it's based on.
01:19:13 Dan
A true story. There you go. There we go. And it feels like it when you watch it. It's it's, you know, it's a very layered, nuanced film. She really explores the inner workings of this bear on Coke and coke. Yes.
01:19:26 Paul Bence
I wonder if.
01:19:27 Speaker 3
It's like.
01:19:32
Let's talk about.
01:19:32 Paul Bence
Exhibitions. OK. Yes, yes. So I've seen a couple this year. I mean, I have seen what did I see with Rosa, which I really like. Ohh. Johnny Pitts's bit in. Ah.
01:19:44 Paul Bence
Whole meals. Yeah, home is not a place or something. I can't remember. It's called again or for short term memory. But that was really good. And who was there with him there? Somebody else was there.
01:19:45 Dan
The photography gallery.
01:19:54 Dan
Yeah, I don't know. He's ohh.
01:19:58 Dan
Chris Killip, wasn't it? Yes, he was.
01:20:00 Paul Bence
Killed, but that that was really.
01:20:01 Paul Bence
Good as well, yeah, that was good.
01:20:01 Dan
That was really good, wasn't it, killer?
01:20:05 Dan
Phillips, honestly one of our favourite photographers. Every time I see his.
01:20:08 Dan
Work on how these guys.
01:20:11 Paul Bence
He was amazing. Yeah, he's up there, isn't he? He's up there and he's up there on the ladder of.
01:20:16 Dan
Who was the lady that did that talk?
01:20:18 Paul Bence
Ohh Susan Weiss.
01:20:20 Dan
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that book coming out.
01:20:21 Paul Bence
Yes, yes, yes, yes, she was great at POP, actually, wasn't she?
01:20:26 Paul Bence
And again umm.
01:20:29 Paul Bence
I imagine how many photographers works like hers exists out there that we haven't seen like.
01:20:33 Dan
Like there's got to be so many people.
01:20:35 Paul Bence
Move those and they're Vivian Myers, and thousands of them exist, right?
01:20:39 Dan
But I mean, I know what you're saying. There's.
01:20:41 Dan
There's there's so.
01:20:41 Dan
Many people that are probably doing incredible stuff.
01:20:44 Dan
That just isn't getting.
01:20:45 Dan
The recognition it deserves just yet that was really cool. I'll tell you what else was cool. So one of the Barbican I.
01:20:52 Dan
Think it's still on?
01:20:55 Paul Bence
OK.
01:20:55 Dan
It's like re slash sisters.
01:20:58 Dan
Lots of work about climate change and feminism and.
01:21:04 Paul Bence
Stuff that doesn't matter then.
01:21:08 Speaker 4
Sorry, I just a joke. Just a joke. It's just a joke.
01:21:09 Dan
I'm not engaging, I'm not engaging.
01:21:13 Dan
Yeah, that was really good.
01:21:14 Paul Bence
Didn't you see another one in the tattletales? Good as well whirled in motion or something. Like it's called uh, I did. Oh, my God. What's that called?
01:21:22 Dan
Like a connected something, it's still on. It's still.
01:21:25 Dan
On I can't remember. Sorry. I'm really sorry. I can't remember still.
01:21:27 Paul Bence
Also died in Mariana as well.
01:21:28 Dan
Diado Moriyama Photographers Gallery is really incredible.
01:21:31 Paul Bence
Seeing that, I'd like to see that.
01:21:32 Paul Bence
So I've seen that I don't want that.
01:21:34 Dan
Finished. You need to go and.
01:21:35 Dan
Do that soon.
01:21:37 Paul Bence
There has been this year.
01:21:38 Dan
It's been great.
01:21:39 Paul Bence
And I had a question for you other one.
01:21:41 Dan
I mentioned Minis podcast on the High Street. Yeah, Joshua Adkins and Daniel Loveday. That was really good.
01:21:45 Paul Bence
If you meet the Iraq.
01:21:52 Paul Bence
Another thing I was going to ask you really on sideways through you've had a lot of photographers come in and speak to you this year college and is there, is there one particular that you came away from thinking God that was like?
01:22:04 Dan
Good advice. No. We've done it, Neil. Yeah, Neil. Neil. No. We've done it. And and many, obviously, yeah, I almost forgot about him because we literally just spoke to him this morning and it feels like those two things are kind of wrapped up in one in my in my.
01:22:18 Dan
Mind for Minnie.
01:22:18 Paul Bence
Fair enough. Yeah.
01:22:19 Dan
And mil I think.
01:22:20 Dan
For sure, but I I see a.
01:22:22 Paul Bence
Lot of.
01:22:24 Dan
What Neil's been?
01:22:25 Dan
Doing over the last God knows.
01:22:27 Paul Bence
20 years.
01:22:29 Dan
Yes, I think he was one of the first people I came across when I was starting to take it a little bit more seriously that I looked at.
01:22:37 Dan
And I was like, I would really like.
01:22:40 Dan
What he's doing like there was, I remember a very, very long time ago, back when they were still shooting on film, having a brief conversation with him over Instagram or Flickr or whatever the **** it was about, where he gets his stuff processed because I was really into his.
01:22:55 Dan
Colours and that's.
01:22:55 Paul Bence
Beijing photo labs.
01:22:57 Dan
Ageing photo labs? Yeah, still going.
01:23:00 Speaker 3
Don't go and that's.
01:23:00 Paul Bence
Another thing we can really quickly talk about is service reply. There's things that we use this year that have been good.
01:23:06 Paul Bence
Like like like. I mean I can talk about, you know, I mean I I mean like.
01:23:15 Paul Bence
Like for like a G photo lab. So I.
01:23:15 Dan
Sorry you start.
01:23:17 Paul Bence
I you know.
01:23:18 Dan
Been using for years. Really is amazing.
01:23:21 Paul Bence
I had some Princeton by this year, by analogue Wonderland. Believe it or not.
01:23:24 Paul Bence
And you were.
01:23:25 Paul Bence
Me like black and white developed prints from them. Yeah. And they came out all my life like the best I've ever.
01:23:31 Paul Bence
From anywhere I buy all my.
01:23:33 Paul Bence
All my film.
01:23:33 Paul Bence
Yeah, I get more from them. Maybe we could get analogue one along. I think sometimes as well like talking about some of the service providers that provide really good services.
01:23:42 Dan
So I I've.
01:23:43 Dan
Written A blog for Analogue Wonderland a while ago. There used to be a lady there. She's just moved to Australia so my connection has gone away.
01:23:54 Dan
And I hope she's doing amazingly as he is sometimes posted on Instagram and right, like looks very exciting now and don't use MPB, they give you ship prices for your gear when you sell it. eBay you get more money for even if you have to pay the.
01:23:59 Paul Bence
For news.
01:24:07 Dan
Commission there's part of me.
01:24:09 Dan
Though that thinks I don't know because.
01:24:11 Dan
I buy a lot.
01:24:11 Speaker 4
I buy. I buy from.
01:24:12 Paul Bence
Them, yeah, but I wouldn't sell to them.
01:24:15 Dan
Yeah, I struggle.
01:24:16 Dan
To sell to them because I mean.
01:24:18
But I'm a.
01:24:18 Speaker 4
They say they they say they say they give you.
01:24:18 Paul Bence
Mature student, right? I I'm struggling for money. You're competitive market price. That's half, that's half as it's not. It's not really, is it? Let's be, let's call it out. Just call it. Like let's let's not a fair competitive. I mean it's a fair competitive price if they're going to make another 50% of photography it's.
01:24:23 Speaker 4
Like dogs.
01:24:33
Phil Rennie.
01:24:34 Speaker 3
Exposed right now.
01:24:36 Dan
Are we playing?
01:24:37 Dan
Are we really gonna? We're gonna have a.
01:24:38 Dan
Puppet I I'm gonna be.
01:24:39 Speaker 4
I'm not talking. I'm not. I'm not asking.
01:24:40 Speaker 3
Gonna be.
01:24:41 Dan
Really fair because if if everyone does this though.
01:24:41 Speaker 4
The pop I I think.
01:24:44 Dan
If nobody sells to them, then I can't buy stuff in anything. Just just don't do it. Let's not do this. But I just. Maybe me and you can discuss. But I do think.
01:24:52 Paul Bence
There's something in that, you know.
01:24:54 Dan
I I don't sell anything to them either, but only because I'm a poor student and I need all the money I can get. But I I do really like it. There's a place that I can get used gear from and and have it still being.
01:25:02 Paul Bence
Yeah, I need to. I mean, I'm it's being tested though. I've had a few bits come from them, which hasn't been.
01:25:06 Paul Bence
Great day as well, yeah.
01:25:07 Speaker 3
Me too, but they've always been really.
01:25:09 Paul Bence
So I can take it back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:25:10 Dan
They've always looked after me. I've had a few lenses.
01:25:12 Dan
Go back.
01:25:13 Speaker 3
Me too. Me too. And you've always.
01:25:14 Paul Bence
Absolutely agree with you wholeheartedly on that. So.
01:25:16 Speaker 4
I don't know. It's one.
01:25:18 Paul Bence
Is a minor gripe, or one saying is.
01:25:20 Paul Bence
I think they.
01:25:20 Paul Bence
Could play you slightly more for the.
01:25:21 Paul Bence
Gear that you sell.
01:25:22 Paul Bence
Yeah, that's it. There I don't.
01:25:24 Paul Bence
Think it's a harsh? Yeah, they exactly. But then, yeah, they were in the business.
01:25:28 Speaker 3
Off the back.
01:25:28 Paul Bence
Of photographers I I know what.
01:25:30
You're saying?
01:25:31 Paul Bence
Should we keep this bin? Yeah. Let's, let's get.
01:25:33 Paul Bence
I don't know.
01:25:35 Dan
I think we've been fairly balanced.
01:25:36 Speaker 4
I actually think I think I think what the like, I think it's a great.
01:25:37 Dan
It's been fairly balanced.
01:25:39 Paul Bence
Service for photographers I think you.
01:25:41 Paul Bence
Can get some great gear there.
01:25:43 Paul Bence
Second hand I I.
01:25:44 Paul Bence
Buy most of my second hand gear from them because the fact that it's been tested on the.
01:25:49 Paul Bence
Whole and then.
01:25:49 Dan
Then you get like 6.
01:25:50 Dan
Or whatever.
01:25:51 Paul Bence
And it's a good thing. I just wish they pay slightly more for the.
01:25:54 Paul Bence
For the gear.
01:25:55 Speaker 4
Yeah, I I get it and I.
01:25:55 Paul Bence
That they sell. I'm yeah.
01:25:56 Dan
I'm with you.
01:25:56 Dan
But but how? Like it is a?
01:25:57 Paul Bence
Get it's a business and yeah.
01:25:58 Speaker 4
Like what?
01:25:58 Speaker 4
That value.
01:25:59 Paul Bence
Otherwise, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:26:00 Dan
Like do.
01:26:01 Dan
Do they still exist as?
01:26:01 Dan
A business if they're doing that.
01:26:03 Dan
I I don't know. And I think if I was in a different financial position where I was able to, if I just wanted the the speed and ease of knowing this thing's gone, then I don't have to think about it. And I I would 100% be selling to them like for me it's not about.
01:26:21 Dan
It's not just about the money, it is kind of about the money for me at the moment because of my financial situation, but it's, I don't know, it's not the only thing to take into account. So I don't know. It's absolutely the photo podcast can't go by without mentioning photo junkies. Can it? Dan woods? Little little shop if you want to buy four books. Second hand where?
01:26:39 Paul Bence
Used each man.
01:26:41 Paul Bence
You might pay an extra £5 for a book, but I feel like you're you're supporting a small a really tiny business and I I have no qualms with that. You see, if I'm if I know I'm helping somebody but and you're going to get again, you're going to get looked after. If you go to him and seeking recommendations. And I asked Dan this, like I was. There's a book I want one of many plans earlier.
01:27:00 Paul Bence
Books and I I sent Dan a message. Say Dan, can you find one of these for me? And he's like, you know, he's he's handing the Internet and doing, you know, I I I kind of think he's.
01:27:09 Dan
On the dark web, he's in the dark. He's on tour.
01:27:13 Paul Bence
I don't think I have.
01:27:16 Paul Bence
No, I I I I think again.
01:27:21 Paul Bence
Community wise, supporting the small businesses and the small people rather than the Amazons of the world and the resources, yeah, is kind of I think you all think that sometimes it's it's easier said than done. Sometimes you can't get something.
01:27:34 Dan
Yeah, I don't feel quite so vulnerable going out there and saying I'm saying can go **** themselves. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't feel too controversial to me, you know?
01:27:42 Paul Bence
Now they make enough money.
01:27:45 Paul Bence
Yeah, I think it's ridiculous every second, apparently, how?
01:27:48 Dan
We're doing with our list.
01:27:49 Dan
Are we? Is that everything? We're.
01:27:50 Dan
Going to talk about, I think.
01:27:51 Paul Bence
It is done. I think we've done music. I think we've done exhibitions. I think we've done films and videos.
01:27:59 Paul Bence
The news was just mentioned in this letter. Again, we're gonna newsletter. The first one's gonna go out this week. Friday. Daniel's going to put it out by the time you hear this. Yeah, it's gone. It's gone. So you should have it in your inboxes. And it's just 10 things from the Internet, whether it relating to photography, arts, culture and music that we've.
01:28:20 Paul Bence
And cross watched, listened. Read this year that.
01:28:22 Paul Bence
We think you might like.
01:28:23 Dan
Are we putting my my playlist?
01:28:25 Dan
On first one, second one.
01:28:26 Paul Bence
Yes, yes, we are. We're gonna.
01:28:29 Paul Bence
Well, maybe the the first one, I think.
01:28:30 Dan
Actually I need to.
01:28:33 Dan
I was not gonna voice stuff to technical. It'll be ready. You'll be ready for the first one. Yeah, if you're, uh, do you subscribe to a playlist? Do you? How does that work?
01:28:42 Paul Bence
You can subscribe to the playlist you can follow.
01:28:43 Dan
Yeah, if it's if. If you are listening to the playlist, I'm gonna constantly update it. So if there's something you like.
01:28:49 Dan
In there, make sure you save it because it might not be there the next time you look. Yeah, it's going to be a moving thing, so if you want to come back frequently, if you want to come on on, meet up in John, remember we're limiting it. We're making it really tighten it up.
01:29:03 Dan
Handful of people.
01:29:04 Paul Bence
And otherwise it becomes impossible. So which, even if you have an inkling that you might like to do, just drop us a message. Instagram.
01:29:11 Dan
We're all going to see it. We're gonna critique each other's work. We're gonna watch cocaine beer together while eating grapes, and then we're gonna add some of each other in.
01:29:19 Paul Bence
Chocolate. Then lick it off.
01:29:20 Dan
And then we're going to draw * ****.
01:29:24 Paul Bence
Yes, my baby is going off. I think Instagram's going crazy. And so all these people will join.
01:29:28 Paul Bence
Our meet up.
01:29:28 Paul Bence
In and that's exactly what that is. Just meet up central, they've called.
01:29:36 Speaker 3
A final thought for the final thought for you.
01:29:40 Dan
Motivation. Get out. Do it. Make it happen.
01:29:44 Dan
Nobody's driving your bus.
01:29:47 Paul Bence
As Roman Kedoshim would say, drive your own ****** ******* bus.
01:29:53 Dan
You can follow along at idle high society to.
01:29:57 Dan
Catch up everything we're doing and in the link.
01:30:00 Dan
On our bio.
01:30:01 Dan
You'll find links to our newsletter to our website to.
01:30:04 Dan
Oh my God, these beeps.
01:30:09 Speaker 4
We made it. It's.
01:30:11 Speaker 4
The end of the year, we've done it, we've.
01:30:13 Dan
Got a follow up or it's?
01:30:15 Dan
Done. That's it.
01:30:16 Dan
Why are you doing?
01:30:17 Dan
So just been cancelled. You did say something really terrible.
01:30:20 Dan
That we might have to.
01:30:21 Dan
Cut out. So maybe we have just been.
01:30:22 Paul Bence
Cancelled. Another thing I really like. Sorry. Last thing, I'm going to shout out this year is offline. Journal, offline journal, Ryan Carroll. Brian Cowell. Sorry, Brian, is this wonderful little journal about contemporary photography in South Wales and not S Yes, South Wales in Wales in general. And there's a lot of work, a lot of amazing.
01:30:42 Paul Bence
Photographers coming out of South Wales in the last 12 months and a lot of work.
01:30:47 Paul Bence
Because you know.
01:30:48 Paul Bence
Newport in South Wales has the best documentary fog, of course, in the whole of the country, and it's something that I wish I'd known when I was younger.
01:30:56 Dan
When I write.
01:30:56 Paul Bence
Right, that hits. Can you tell me how much that hits to me? I didn't even know it existed. I didn't even know it.
01:30:57 Dan
And her name?
01:31:03 Dan
Existed. I'm leaving you with that thought. Being a mature student isn't so.
01:31:06 Dan
Bad. You could just go back.
01:31:07 Paul Bence
Yeah. Yeah, I think they're doing an online one.
01:31:09 Paul Bence
As well now.
01:31:10 Dan
But I might do an MA after this I might do.
01:31:13 Dan
An AMA? Maybe, maybe.
01:31:14 Paul Bence
Yeah, like to manage, you don't need the money.
01:31:15 Dan
You should do.
01:31:16 Paul Bence
With me, yeah, yeah.
01:31:18 Dan
With their classmates.
01:31:19 Paul Bence
Kind of like that, I think. I think there's something deep and I've been speaking to another, an Australian man, I've thought.
01:31:24 Dan
2025 mate, I'll be.
01:31:25 Dan
Done with with this course.
01:31:26 Paul Bence
Yeah, I think that's perfect I.
01:31:28 Paul Bence
Think the timing could be perfect? Yeah, yeah.
01:31:31 Dan
OK, you can find Paul at Paul Bentz underscore UK, just UK bent Paul Bentz UK on Instagram and I am all the underscores Dan S Higginson Dan underscore S underscore Higginson that is right isn't it?
01:31:35 Paul Bence
OK, OK. It's OK.
01:31:46 Paul Bence
I'll this.
01:31:46 Dan
Have a great new year.
01:31:48 Paul Bence
Loves you. And remember, look after people closest to you and don't give a **** about anybody else.
01:31:55 Dan
Hey man, happy.
01:31:57 Dan
New year. Happy new.
01:31:57 Paul Bence
Year you have a lovely Christmas. You have everything that you've wanted and some of the things that you don't and we'll see you in 2024, big love.
01:32:08 Paul Bence
Big love from Danielle.
01:32:10 Paul Bence
Big little poor out of work that it was an early Phoenix and Cha Cha.
